Guy Daniels, Director of Content, TelecomTV

CSP Data Center Network Automation Strategies for 5G, Edge, and Advanced Enterprise Services

Industry Voices Network Automation5G
Guy Daniels Headshot
The still image shows a picture of the host, Guy Daniels, on the left, and the two guests, Ben Baker and Gorkem Yigit. The TelecomTV logo is on the bottom left of the screen.

The state of data center automation today

What is the state of data center automation today, and how can Communication Service Providers (CSPs) accelerate the progression toward automation?

In this video that originally aired on TelecomTV, host Guy Daniels talks with Juniper’s Ben Baker and Gorkem Yigit, from Analysys Mason, about the key findings from a recent survey Juniper and Analysys Mason conducted of dozens of CSPs from around the world about the status of data center automation. 

You’ll discover what the survey results indicate are the main drivers of network automation, as well as the biggest challenges CSPs are facing in the transition to an automated data center. 

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You’ll learn

  • Current CSP strategies for 5G, Edge, and Advanced Enterprise Services

  • How CSPs can accelerate the progress of data center network automation 

  • How the Juniper portfolio can help CSPs manage their Telco cloud infrastructure in hyper efficient ways

Who is this for?

Network Professionals Business Leaders


Guy Daniels Headshot
Guy Daniels
Director of Content, TelecomTV

Guest speakers

Ben Baker
Ben Baker
Senior Director, Product Marketing, Juniper Networks
Gorkem Yigit Headshot
Gorkem Yigit
Principal Analyst, Analysys Mason


0:04 hello you're watching telecom tv i'm guy daniels director of content we're going

0:09 to take a detailed look at csp data center network automation strategies for

0:15 5g edge and advanced enterprise services we'll be identifying the main barriers

0:21 and challenges and finding out how csps can accelerate the progress of their

0:26 data center network automation and joining me to explain more and to

0:31 discuss the results of a new global study and white paper are

0:36 ben baker senior director of product marketing at juniper networks and gurkham eat principal analyst at

0:44 analysis mason well welcome both of you gurkham in a moment will go through the findings of

0:51 the research you conducted with tier 1 csps worldwide but first ben

0:57 why did juniper commission this study well guy we have literally hundreds of

1:04 communication service provider customers around the world and our account teams are working with these companies every

1:10 day and then when you think about cloud and cloud native infrastructure again on the

1:15 juniper side some of our largest customers that are the cloud hyperscalers and we've been working with

1:20 them closely since their inception so we do think we have a good understanding of the sp data center

1:26 environment however we want to get some third-party validation of what we think we already know and

1:32 of course when you conduct a survey like this you do learn a bunch of new things about the situation at sps and

1:38 when you aggregate this information across a broad diverse range of of service providers like analysis mason

1:45 has done it helps you get a fully coherent view and we certainly take these inputs and make sure they match

1:51 what we're doing in terms of product roadmaps and finally we want to specifically dig into the state of data center automation

1:59 what are the problems that sps are having in their in operating their data centers and ultimately we think that

2:05 juniper has the portfolio to help sps manage their data centers their telco cloud infrastructure in hyper efficient

2:12 ways similar to how the big public cloud providers do it so we want to understand why are sps not

2:17 adopting some of these tools as fast as we think they should be sure okay thanks ben

2:23 so gurkham tell us about how you conducted this research

2:28 yeah sure um so over the last six seven months we collected a great amount of

2:34 inputs and data first through an online survey with 30 tier one communication

2:40 service providers csps worldwide and we also did five additional in-depth phone

2:46 interviews with them so our aim was to identify the key drivers and the trends for csb data

2:52 center strategies and particularly to understand csp's approach to data center

2:57 network automation their main drivers and challenges target use cases and the

3:02 tools they are using to automate their networks so you can see on the slide the

3:07 demographics of the csps we surveyed and most of the csp participants were from

3:13 north america western europe and southeast asia which also includes japan and india but we also had csps from

3:21 other regions as well so overall this is a global study and when we look at the types of csps

3:28 the large majority was integrated service providers with mobile and fixed networks and enterprise managed ict

3:34 services so these are typically large csps with extensive network and data center assets

3:40 and service offerings and in terms of data center size most participants say clustered around

3:47 10 to 24 data centers but we also had some csps with more than 50 or hundreds

3:53 and we actually did in-depth interviews with some of these large csps that provide global data

3:59 center services with locations spread all around the world and finally the titles and

4:05 responsibilities we have a very balanced mix of respondents here which helped us

4:10 get a very holistic view of the state of the csb data center network automation today and their future roadmaps

4:17 not only we had senior executives that are in charge of their data center strategy and transformation but also the

4:23 technical stuff such as network architects engineers operations managers

4:29 so these are the people who get their hands dirty you know with actually implementing and using data center automation solutions

4:36 well let's now look at what you discovered what did you find were the key drivers and trends for csp data

4:44 center strategies sure so there are three main drivers that are

4:49 influencing csbs data center strategies and investment focus today

4:55 so first is the new opportunities in the enterprise many services and connectivity markets

5:00 there is a major transformation underway in the enterprise market today and this is started with sd-wan sassy and more

5:08 recently csp started to add multi-cloud networking um industrial applications

5:13 and use cases at the edge and also private networks to their enterprise service portfolios

5:19 and the second is network clarification or toggle cloud especially for 5g

5:24 networks it is it's a major driver and the third are the deployment of new

5:29 edge computing locations in order to support both these enterprise and 5g services i just mentioned

5:36 so all these new technologies and advanced services are very much interrelated and complementary to each

5:42 other and they will be deployed and operated in csp data centers so csps needs really state of the art

5:48 operational efficient and programmable data centers in order for them to be successful

5:54 so these are the high-level top three drivers but uh when we asked csp is their number

6:00 one priority the majority of the csps rank 5g telco clouds is the most

6:05 important driver as you can see on the rights csps are in the process of building

6:11 their 5g networks using cloud native the segregated technologies and they're starting from their mobile core networks

6:18 for example running on centralized data centers and gradually expanding into the radio access network where you have the

6:25 vdus and the vcus and deployed in network age data centers

6:30 so this finding suggests that the csbs acknowledge the need to modernize and automate their data centers to

6:36 successfully manage this infrastructure transformation we also split the responses by region

6:42 here and one of the key regional variances that jumps out of it is the data center agenda of the majority of

6:48 the csps from asia-pacific is driven by cyber clouds but the main drivers for

6:54 csps from other regions are more evenly spread out especially for north american and

6:59 western european csps the main focus on data center investments include things like adoption of public cloud and

7:06 multi-cloud capex reduction and to lesser extent edge computing

7:11 so what is driving these regional differences in the data center strategies

7:17 so the chart i'm showing on the left uh shows the percentage of workloads that run in different environments so from

7:24 traditional on-prem data centers to public clouds and sas and this is both today and in two years

7:30 time overall the shift from on-prem to public cloud and sas is definitely underway but

7:36 it is not happening very rapidly however when we zoom into the data we see that the csp is in north america and

7:43 western europe particularly are the fastest in terms of moving their workloads to public cloud and sas

7:50 and we know that the number of partnerships between these csps and the public cloud providers have grown significantly over the past couple of

7:57 years most often for multiple aspects for their it transformations and more recently to support the joint launch of

8:04 their public edge computing services to enterprises and when we look at the chart on the right we see that

8:10 most csps in north america and western europe are reducing and consolidating the number of their traditional data

8:16 centers indeed many csps in north america such as atnt verizon canada or in western

8:23 europe bt telecom italia telefonica they all divested a large portion of their

8:29 data center assets over the last decade instead they've partnered with carrier neutral co-location providers such as

8:35 equinix digital realty and others for their data center needs so overall for

8:40 the western world while the 5g and telco cloud is absolutely important their main

8:45 data center focus is more skilled towards the adoption of public clouds multi-cloud and capex reduction

8:52 the story in the pacific region on the other hand is is a little bit different um these csps they show a stark

8:58 difference in their data center footprints footprint strategies and this is mainly due to um the historical lack

9:05 of strong presence of public cloud providers and high ip transit costs and some data localization laws

9:12 and many csps are making large investments in in growing and the number

9:17 and the size of their data centers in this region both for their itn network needs and there are some large csps such

9:24 as china telecom kddi or ntt they are competing in data center infrastructure

9:29 markets at a global scale and they're expanding their data center presence across the world however we also see that

9:36 the public cloud and the sas adoption is growing in this region and public cloud providers are rapidly expanding

9:43 their presence and service offerings in these new asian countries and we also saw that in some cases they are taking

9:49 advantage of csp's strong positions in the local enterprise markets to introduce joint offers in partnerships

9:56 with csps so in some i think we can conclude that the csp on-prem data centers and private

10:02 clouds will remain important and this is for supporting their both digital and the

10:07 network transformation ambitions but csps will need to operate increasingly hybrid infrastructures

10:14 where it network and enterprise applications will be deployed across multiple different data centers and

10:19 cloud environments well that's very interesting and gurkham what about the edge though do csps have

10:26 different strategies when it comes to edge data centers yeah it's a great question um so we

10:32 looked at edge data center investments um separately the operator's plans in

10:37 this research and by edge data center by the way we mean uh the smaller and more distributed data

10:43 centers located in csp networks such as south sides metro data centers or central offices

10:50 and in contrast to the regional variances we saw in the traditional data centers our

10:57 research shows that the many csps across all regions have very strong plans to invest in these new distributed data

11:04 centers at the edge so the majority of the csps are simultaneously focusing on both

11:10 enterprise edge clouds and this is to provide new iot operational technology or enhanced

11:16 enterprise services and also the network edge clouds to host their 5g functions such as vrand and openram

11:24 however our research and interviews also indicate that in most csp organizations

11:29 these network age and enterprise aid strategies are executed separately by different business units

11:36 today the enterprise hclouds are often based on public cloud provider stacks

11:41 and they're being deployed in regional and metro data centers and this is mainly to process certain types of data

11:48 locally and this is for security and regulatory reasons and when we look at the network hclouds

11:54 these are mainly located in cell sites or near south sides and this is to cater the needs of real-time processing

12:00 requirements of cloud-based ramp functions so there are some advanced csps are joining up or they are planning

12:07 to join up these different age strategies and deployments because there are going to be some new

12:13 enterprise use cases that require near real-time response and processing in the run but today these areas are fairly

12:22 separate activities and when we look at the number of edge data centers

12:28 the csps are planning to roll outs over the next couple of years

12:34 we see that the most csps that has an aids strategy are expecting to have between 10 to 24 h data center locations

12:42 and you may recall that that is kind of similar to the footprint of their existing traditional

12:48 data centers but we also see that there are several csps from north america

12:53 western europe and asia pacific they have more aggressive edge rollout plans with more than 50 or 100 edge locations

13:01 in the near term but of course this is just the beginning based on our general edge competing

13:06 research we expect that the age footprints feel likely to be much bigger in the long term and because enterprises

13:13 will require a more distributed edge native compute fabric that is available pretty much at every conceivable

13:19 location so this means that potentially hundreds or thousands of edge nodes in a country or region

13:25 so all this means that this sheer number and the scale of centralized and distributed age data centers will make

13:32 the data center network automation capabilities uh for managing this infrastructure even more important

13:39 okay so these key drivers and trends are for overall data center strategies

13:45 ben can you explain why data center networks and their automation are so

13:50 important yeah clearly as we've seen here data centers and cloud infrastructure are becoming increasingly important to sps

13:57 and we've all seen that as the application world is is moving to microservices and

14:03 kubernetes orchestration that the network is more important than ever to connect all these dispersed

14:08 workloads so data center networking and operations are critical uh sps are too

14:14 big and their businesses are too complex to be successful with these data center strategies that gorkham just went

14:20 through without a heavy dose of automation you know without the right tools for dc automation and

14:26 orchestration what we're talking about today just becomes a big operational mess and and sps have to learn to do

14:33 this themselves it would be a mistake to cede your strategy entirely to the public cloud providers

14:39 so given this importance gurkham what is the current state of csp data center and

14:45 network automation yes um so despite the importance of the data center network automation as band

14:52 just explained we see that the csps have actually made little progress in automating their data

14:58 center network operations so far so let me explain the results i'm sharing

15:04 now so we asked csps to rate their current level of automation for each of these

15:10 operational areas and we gave them ranges such as less than 10

15:15 10 to 25 percent 2050 so and so forth and we took the median points of the

15:21 aggregated inputs in order to assess the overall level for example um 38 percent

15:26 here means that most of the csps automated that particular area between the range of 25 to 50

15:33 and similarly 18 here means that it is in the range of 10 to 25

15:39 so when we look at these results we see that csps have made some strides in automating

15:45 relatively straightforward areas such as self-service portal integration and software upgrades and patching however

15:52 many key operational processes such as configuration root cause identification

15:58 and change validation all these remain highly manual today and csps do not really demonstrate

16:04 strong ambition or urgency to ramp up the level of automation in the near term either

16:09 we ask csps about their expectations for automation in two years time by the way which is

16:15 quite a long time for cloud and data center technologies that are likely to evolve and change rapidly in that

16:21 periods and csps expect to introduce automation to just about half of their

16:26 operational processes within this time frame and while their expectations for other key areas such as

16:32 root cause identification and telemetry are still low so all these results suggest that there

16:38 is a major gap between csps and hyperscalers large-scale enterprises and

16:45 the emerging network as a service competitors you know in terms of their current data center automation abilities

16:50 and then the future plans so we then zoomed into the day two plus operations which we found that many csbs

16:58 are facing significant challenges today and csps are generally struggling to automate fundamental day two processes

17:05 such as capacity management monitoring and assurance and service provisioning and change

17:10 so this will pose major obstacles for csbs when they are expected to meet their key service metrics such as time

17:16 to markets on-demand provisioning and slas including mean time to repair and uptime and this is especially true for

17:23 the more advanced services they're preparing to launch you know once their 5g networks and edge data centers are in

17:29 place and in our in-depth interviews uh most csps highlighted monitoring and

17:35 troubleshooting as their main pain points for day two operations and they especially highlighted the lack

17:40 of service intelligence and visibility across the multi-vendor network elements and this is due to the underlying

17:46 fragmentation of vendor proprietary data center automation tools and the data models

17:52 so what are the main barriers and challenges then to data center network automation

17:58 yes so according to our survey csvs are facing two major barriers that

18:03 are hindering their data center network automation investments and then the progress first

18:09 it's the lack of technology standardization and fragmentation in their data centers and the second is the

18:15 difficulty in justifying an opex driven business case for automation and in addition to these two barriers

18:22 our interview surfaced another barrier that is related to the data center ownership structure and organizational

18:29 mindsets so let me go into detail on each of these barriers and let's start with technology

18:35 fragmentation so many csps we talked to pointed out that their data center

18:41 networking environments are highly fragmented and very complex operates and automates and this is because their data

18:48 center networks consist of several vendors specific hardware as well as the management software tools

18:54 and there's already the existing heterogeneity of the traditional its switches and tools that are procured

19:01 from juniper cisco and arista but in addition to that ascsps cloudify their mobile networks

19:08 network function providers for taco clouds such as ericsson nokia and huawei they're also bringing their own or

19:14 partner networking components to csp data center and this further increases the technology and operational

19:20 fragmentation and in the cases where csps operates there are enterprise many service

19:26 customer environments they have additional complexity because each of these customer networks come with

19:32 different mix of network equipments so overall serving a wide range of services and use cases so i.t taco cloud

19:40 and enterprise and all these use a diverse set of underlay silos and overlay networks

19:46 makes it very difficult for csps to rationalize and automate their data center networks

19:52 as you can see on this pie chart csps often have to use multiple management and automation software

19:58 solutions and they are provided by a range of hardware and i.t vendors as well as we see the use of some scripting

20:05 tools like ansible or python and also the in-house ground solutions so all these disparate systems result in

20:13 high operational complexity and which is the main challenge um the csps associated with their data center

20:18 network automation technologies as the charts on the right shows and this is especially the case for csps

20:25 that mainly rely on single vendor automation solutions because they are typically focusing only on the

20:31 operations of their own network elements and the domains and moving to the second biggest barrier

20:38 which is the difficulty in justifying the business case for automation but before that i should explain what this

20:44 chart shows so based on the responses on the vendor technology choices the pie chart i

20:50 showed in the previous slides we categorized csps into three groups the first one is the csps that only use

20:57 third-party vendor solutions like juniper cisco and nokia and others for their automation needs and the second

21:04 group is the csps that mainly rely on in-house tools and the third group is

21:09 the the hybrid meaning that they have a mix of in-house and vendor solutions

21:15 and the reason why we did this is to isolate and understand the top technology challenges associated with

21:21 each group of csps so we see that operational complexity is the main problem for the csps that only

21:28 use the vendor solutions or hybrid environments with vendor plus in-house solutions which is what we discussed in

21:34 the previous slide but when we look at the csps that mainly rely on their own tools in-house grown tools and platforms

21:41 for automation cost and scalability are their main challenges and this may not come as a surprise

21:47 because in-house created automation requires developers and network engineers and operations people to spend

21:55 a lot of time and effort in building testing and integrating these custom diy

22:00 automation tools and the maintenance and the continuous development and the improvement of such tools can become highly expensive over

22:07 their life cycle so given the high cost of manual processes and in-house developments why

22:14 csps are struggling to build a strong business case for automation and this is because

22:20 the on-prem operations and in-house development costs are actually hidden so csp data centers serve multiple lines

22:27 of businesses and the costs are shared across these different teams and units within them

22:33 and also data center staff they often straddle multiple engineering operations and development responsibilities at the

22:39 same time so all these factors make it very difficult to have a clear-cut granular

22:45 view of the existing costs and as such csps cannot really carry out a healthy evaluation of the costs and the benefits

22:52 of new automation solutions and initiatives against the status quo

22:58 and the final and maybe the most important barrier is that csps have an entirely different mindset

23:04 to data center networking and automation compared to enterprises and hyperscalers

23:10 for example hyperscalers have a very much devops driven constant optimization

23:15 and automation approach to solve their data center problems but many csps are used to throwing more

23:21 people as human glues or they do expansive custom integrations or add-on tools to solve their operational

23:28 challenges i shared some of the quotes here that we got from the interviews it

23:33 basically reflects their their their thinking especially the first one on the left that highlights you know the

23:39 culture and the mindsets it's really fostering um these practices

23:44 and also csps have a very telecoms network-centric view most csps we talked

23:50 to about data center automation first thing they think about was network or service orchestration and

23:57 also they were thinking about things like nms ems or other tools they use in the wide area networks

24:03 so overall their automation thinking and focus is is primarily on

24:09 access networks or wide area networks and they tend to overlook their data centers

24:14 but given that the data centers are an integral part of their network transformation there is an evident

24:20 disconnect we are seeing in csps thinking between their network and service ambitions and the actual focus

24:26 they are putting in their data center network automation to support them it's fascinating thanks for that gurkham

24:32 ben what's juniper's reaction to hearing all this information

24:38 yeah there's so many important insights to unpack here in the last few slides um but but just a few things briefly the

24:44 juniper portfolio can certainly help sps here tremendously and what we've done is we've changed the

24:50 economics for an sp to build out and to operate their own cloud infrastructure their data centers and

24:57 it's really interesting how this survey found that sps fundamentally think about network automation in different ways

25:03 than an enterprise or hyperscaler does so juniper for years now you know we've

25:09 had our paragon portfolio of tools to automate the wan and we have a great solution for the data

25:15 center overlay and that's our contrail product that orchestrates cloud workloads and virtual networks and more

25:21 recently now with appstore we have a fantastic product to manage the underlay the data center fabric that we've really

25:27 focused on for this survey and philosophically appstore fits well with how juniper has

25:34 always approached the marketplace you know for example in terms of being open appstr is multi-vendor and pretty much

25:41 all sp environments today are multi-vendor and as gorkham said a lot of that fragmentation in the data center

25:48 networks is is a problem and abstract can help solve that problem and also if you think about reliability

25:54 you know historically this could be you know the one single word that you would

25:59 use to describe what drives a telco business and as it turns out reliability is is a key

26:05 founding principle of of apps and the idea that the blueprints that appstr is based upon essentially give

26:12 you reliability and consistency and this is what ultimately gives you speed of operations

26:17 and you know one of the interesting things is that that connection between reliability and consistency and speed

26:24 this is one of the key insights that we can all learn from the cloud hyperscalers who are masters at managing

26:29 their infrastructure so we bring that knowledge to the sp world

26:35 a final point here about understanding the business case for data center automation as gorkham

26:42 said the inertia of sps doing it themselves with tools they've developed in-house is tough to overcome

26:49 but but stay tuned in the coming months we're going to start putting out a lot of details around the savings that our

26:54 customers have realized after switching over to appstr thanks ben and gurkham what are the

27:01 solutions and recommendations for accelerating the progress of csp data

27:07 center network automation yeah well i think our research makes it very clear

27:12 that most csb data centers aren't really ready for the automation and agility needs of

27:18 5g edge and all the new enterprise or support changes we talked about and this

27:23 really needs to change fast so there are several things csps need to do both from

27:29 technology and organizational point of view and let's start with the easier one which is which is technology as i

27:35 mentioned before um and the benefit to it as well the high level of fragmentation and operational silos is

27:42 the really the biggest technology barrier to automation so csps need to change the way they

27:48 design and operate their data center networks by moving away from the traditional vendor-drone bottom-up

27:54 approach to a top-down paradigm and this means that csps should start from business intent and application

28:01 requirements first and the design and the choice of lower level hardware and software components

28:06 should be driven by these requirements not the other way around this is the case today and a key step towards making this

28:13 paradigm shift will be a creation of a horizontal end-to-end automation layer that collapses these

28:19 vendor-specific silos and of course every csp has a different starting point for their automation

28:25 journey and building this horizontal multi-vendor automation layer will not be an easy task especially over

28:32 this silo than the complex brownfield networks however having a truly multivendor

28:38 network automation platform will be essential for all csps in order to tackle this operational complexity and

28:43 fragmentation and as we can see here in this chart csps acknowledge that they strongly need

28:50 such a multi-vendor automation platform for their data center networks

28:55 and for the hardest parts which is organizational change there are several things to do

29:01 one of the most important findings from our research was that the cto is often the main budget holder for data center

29:08 networks not the cio unlike in many enterprises and in some csps data center

29:13 responsibility is dedicated to heads of data center network operations

29:18 so we know that the ctos typically have much greater focus on mobile and fixed networks than on data centers so the

29:26 fact that the ctos do not give strong backing to lower level budget holders for data center automation may be a key

29:33 factor behind the low priority and the low level of automation we just seen

29:38 and we dig deeper to understand these organizational and the mindset issues further

29:44 and one csp said that the complex and the continuously changing data center

29:50 ownership structure in their organization is one of the major inhibitors to their automation efforts

29:56 and another interview we mentioned that um despite having the budget to implement automation tools there is no

30:03 group dedicated to actually getting it done and the current stuff are just too busy with their daily firefighting

30:09 routines so all these issues should be addressed by c-level executives urgently as csps

30:16 are getting ready to launch their 5g and edge networks and ctos in particular should step up their efforts to

30:23 prioritize and accelerate data center automation initiatives and they need to think about how to restructure the

30:29 responsibility for data center operations so that they can be pretty much equal to other network

30:34 operations and they have as much visibility so they really need a long-term transformational automation plan that is

30:41 inclusive of all lines of businesses um it's going to be a critical part of the efforts and just going back to um the

30:50 business case issue one of the key broad block sets you know to to implement this

30:55 plan is going to be building this business case so csps really need to look at it um holistically

31:02 and this should be driven by their strategic objectives and and then the long long term plan

31:07 so and the first step they need to do is actually decomposing and mapping their data center network processes across

31:13 operations engineering and development in detail to uncover the hidden costs i mentioned before

31:20 and finally i would also add that csps might benefit from working with external partners in order to develop a framework

31:26 for this business case so that they can identify the realistic benefits and the costs of automation based on market

31:33 evidence and experience which can be really helpful to strengthen their business case all right thanks gurkham so ben can you

31:41 summarize the findings here and explain how viewers can access the white paper and also tell us what's coming next

31:48 uh yeah well you know first thank you telecom tv for hosting this session and thank you gorkham for the excellent work

31:54 we hope everyone watching has found this to be informative one of the things we're going to do

32:00 further down the road later this year is we're going to do another survey that digs down even further into some of

32:06 these key areas um but as a short-term follow-up for the audience please read

32:11 the reports created by analysis mason that delves even deeper into the the topics that we went through today and

32:17 then be sure to tune in on may 5th where we'll have a panel with analysis mason and special guests from juniper networks

32:24 to get their perspective on on all of this and finally thank you all for the audience for for listening in

32:30 well thank you ben and also gokum thank you both very much indeed and a reminder that you can download the white paper

32:36 now just follow the links below this video and as ben says don't forget to join us for our live q a panel

32:43 discussion on thursday the 5th of may just check the website for local times

32:49 and that's in just two days and we look forward to receiving all your questions

32:55 for now though thank you for watching and goodbye

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