Elaine Raybourn, Sandia National Laboratories

SC21 Panel: Strategies for Working Remotely — Sustainable Hybrid Approaches for HPC

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The opening slide of the presentation with six panelists and one host and a picture of an empty conference room.

Loaded with information: How can HPC teams be effective in hybrid work settings?

The unplanned transition to remote work that took place in 2020 has altered the way we work now. Don’t miss this panel discussion with top industry experts as they explore sustainable hybrid approaches for high-performance computing (HPC) teams moving forward. 

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You’ll learn

  • Strategies for working remotely with emphasis on HPC teams

  • How the new hybrid work environment opens doors for technological innovation  

  • How hybrid settings can help with hiring and retaining a diverse workforce 

Who is this for?

Business Leaders Network Professionals

Host

Elaine Raybourn Headshot
Elaine Raybourn
Sandia National Laboratories

Guest speakers

Sadaf Alam
Swiss National Supercomputing Centre (CSCS)
Pat Quillen
MathWorks
Christian Bischof
Technical University Darmstadt
Helen Cademartori
Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (LBNL)
Devin Hodge
Argonne National Laboratory (ANL)
Transcript

0:00 hi everyone it's really great that you are taking some time out of your afternoon to join us for this panel on

0:06 strategies for working remotely sustainable approaches for hpc my name is elaine raybourne i'm from

0:13 sandia national laboratories and i'm the moderator of this panel and today i'm

0:18 joined by some really great colleagues of mine that are really willing to talk about

0:24 strategies for hybrid work and so we're really looking forward to

0:29 your questions please put your questions in slido i've got some lined up but as your

0:35 questions come in we would love to to hear you reacting to our panel today

0:41 so by way of introducing our panel i'm just going to

0:48 go around our virtual room and each of our panelists will introduce

0:53 themselves and what we'll do is we will say a little bit about ourselves uh where

1:00 we're connecting from um uh let's see um

1:05 one thing we've changed uh since so we started working virtually and uh how long we've been working remotely

1:12 so again i'm from sandia national laboratories where i'm a social scientist and i work

1:19 with scientists in high performance computing and it's been a really great experience for me

1:25 i've been working remotely for several years actually maybe about 15

1:30 years or so i'm including time where i worked in europe in germany and france

1:36 as a european um consortium european research consortium

1:42 and informatics and mathematics fellow and now i am a virtual employee

1:50 at sandia and i'm located on the east coast in orlando florida

1:56 and so one thing that i've changed since i started working remotely since

2:01 actually the pandemic started is that now i start to take a lot of walking meetings that is that if i have a

2:08 meeting where i don't need to show my camera i take walks on them it helps me think i

2:14 get some exercise changes the environment a bit and it breaks up my day so that's me

2:22 all right sadaf would you like to go next oh thank you thank you for inviting

2:28 me to this panel and thank for people who are attending the panel so my name is sadafalam i am a chief

2:36 technology officer at the swiss national supercomputing center so this is an interesting thing is like

2:45 i am physically right now in centuries but i am joining remotely because

2:50 the way technical setup and the panel is done it's more convenient for me to join

2:56 not to join from the from the meeting room at the convention center

3:01 where anshu is i'm based in lugano which is in canton or you can call it ticino the italian

3:08 speaking part of switzerland closer to milan where current time is

3:13 10 30 right now

3:19 so we started working remotely around mid-march 2020. uh i've been working

3:25 here since 2009 in switzerland before that i was in the us before that i was in scotland

3:32 um so as an hpc when we can call it a

3:38 technologist although i was not technically speaking employed

3:46 as working remotely uh because we have such an international

3:52 group of experts colleagues peers there was always a virtual element

3:59 to our life for collaboration coordination meetings um

4:05 and what has changed in the meantime in this case and i'm really fortunate and

4:11 grateful like would come to see in person is that

4:16 i start valuing in-person meeting a lot more because

4:23 while there are really value and benefits for doing for interacting

4:28 remotely for for team building for solving or agreeing or

4:35 finding consensus on on complex issues

4:41 i believe the in-person part is important so what i do in my daily life differently now

4:48 uh is is that i try to squeeze the vc meeting times

4:54 to if if at all possible to fewer hours a day not the whole

5:00 day while i was in physically in person situation i would not have done it that

5:06 uh consciously because i feel like i'm much less productive when i'm in that

5:11 way and i have now since last super computing which was

5:17 very good but at the same time very tiring for people with time zone differences

5:23 um i am refusing to attend any virtual meeting in different time zones other

5:28 than if i have to make up you know give a talk and other thing where you know the commitment is a

5:34 shorter commitment like a couple of hours so it would be good to hear from

5:40 um all of you your you know personal input and feedback on

5:46 on in different situations thanks great thank you it sounds like

5:51 you're taking control of your time which is a really good best practice

5:58 so pat how about you would you like to introduce yourself next uh yeah sure i'd be happy to and uh

6:05 thank you again for having me on the panel i really appreciate it i i think this is a good opportunity to talk about these things um

6:11 my name is pat quillen i'm a software engineering manager at the mathworks where my team is responsible for uh

6:18 matlab math and we took care of all the math and matlab as well as the pde toolbox and some of the other math works

6:24 tools um i'm coming to you live here in my home in scenic shrewsbury massachusetts it's

6:31 4 38 p.m my co-worker over here who's very fuzzy is admonishing me that there's danger

6:37 outside so forgive me in advance when you hear the barking um i've been working remotely uh

6:45 since march 13th of 2020 mathworks has long been a company

6:50 that that while we do have development offices and and sales offices around the

6:55 world most of our work for teams has been kind of in person

7:01 and so it was a very abrupt change for the whole company um and we're still not completely back

7:07 the office is open uh and we're talking about transitioning to a hybrid plan

7:13 but the hybrid plan remains on hold until later um

7:19 one of the things that that we've changed since we started working remotely and i think this has actually been been very very nice is we kind of

7:26 copped to the reality that you know we should not be starting meetings abruptly back to back and so

7:33 most of the meetings in my area are now they begin at 10 minutes past the hour

7:39 and so that gives folks at least an opportunity to to kind of be late and and

7:46 you know still we're not missing much i think that's been a great change and if we ever do completely go back in person uh

7:53 i that's a change i'd like to persist because it was a it was really a reality uh that

7:59 that you know folks would come strolling in because you just can't you can't have meetings like that i mean people

8:05 have to move so uh yeah that's all i'm looking forward to hearing what everybody has to say on the panel and uh thanks again

8:13 you bet thank you so um we are just going around the um the room and

8:19 introducing ourselves for those of you that have joined us a little bit later and also at this moment what we're just

8:26 uh doing is um saying about ourselves something we've uh started doing since

8:31 we started working remotely and where we're connecting from and how long we've been working remotely and i'd like to

8:37 encourage everyone that has a question to please uh put your um question in slido

8:43 for for now and then when we finish introducing ourselves then we can take questions from the floor too thank you

8:49 helen would you mind introducing yourself hi i'm i'm helen kennedy i'm the deputy

8:54 of operations at lbl in the computing sciences area and we have been virtual or

9:04 we've been working virtually remotely since march 13th or 18th of

9:10 2020 um we initially were in a um

9:18 a safe and stable situation where only essential personnel were allowed to come on site during the early days of the

9:25 pandemic so that was sort of site security ehms

9:31 some facilities folks and people who had um

9:37 sort of living research cell lines and and whatnot that needed

9:44 to be needed to be maintained that expanded out um

9:53 i want to say maybe early or late in the summer and then more of us could come on site but it was still

10:00 it's still a relatively small number we have intricate systems for improving

10:07 who comes on site and lots of protocols in place regarding

10:14 wearing masks maintaining distances you can only be without a mask as i am now

10:19 in my office at the lab um if you're in an enclosed office with the door closed

10:24 if you're working at a cubicle you must wear a mask the entire time so um

10:31 you know we've gone back and forth we were beginning to expand the presence of our work of our our staff on site and

10:38 then delta um changed that and so we are you know back

10:44 to being relatively conservative normally

10:49 there are about 4 500 staff on site at berkeley lab these days it

10:55 we don't reach 1600. i come on site one day a week

11:00 um as an assigned that's part of a rotation for senior on-site leaders and

11:06 part of our responsibility when we're here is to do walk-arounds and make sure that people are abiding by

11:12 their requirements uh of masking maintaining distances not being

11:17 too in a in a in a room um

11:23 several other things i mean it's gotten a little more

11:28 would come a little bit more flexible but there were times when you need you had to

11:33 turn a light on if you were going into a restroom so other people knew that that

11:38 you know if it were a multi-occupancy restroom for example you needed to turn the light on so that not more than one

11:44 person went into the room at the same time you needed to always walk to the right to maintain six feet if two people

11:49 were passing in a corridor so some of that has been somewhat relaxed but um

11:55 uh you know it's a it's a very different environment even if you are on site first of all that you don't ever see

12:01 anybody so although i enjoy coming into the office on occasion because it changes it's a change of scenery i

12:08 frankly have a better setup here with a whiteboard and two screens and a color printer etc but it's not as if i get to

12:15 interact with people very much um so i would say one of the big differences or one of the changes that

12:22 i've had to make intentionally um through this pandemic is making appointment

12:28 appointments or raking dates with people on i try to do it on a daily basis to either go for a walk or now you know

12:35 that we can meet outside for lunch um because i just have become very aware of

12:42 the fact that we are social or i am at least a social animal and living in two

12:47 dimensions is has not has not been great i don't i i find it

12:54 very stressful so anyway glad to be on the panel welcome to everybody enjoy talking with you

13:01 thanks helen and i really appreciate your candor and uh yeah you're really highlighting for me as a

13:07 as a virtual worker all of the challenges that you face by being on site and so i think that that's

13:14 really interesting to consider so that's a great insight for the panel okay devin how about your introduction

13:22 i i was hoping you wouldn't uh do me after helen just because it'll be like deja vu but

13:28 i'll try not to repeat um my name is devin hodge i am the uh currently the

13:33 interim deputy chief operations officer for our guy national laboratory and but

13:39 i'm also my day job is uh the chief operations officer for the computing environment life sciences directorate at

13:45 argonne and so i've been largely remote

13:52 since march 14th last year but who but who's counting

13:59 and i say largely because i probably go on site probably three to four times a month

14:05 at argonne to kind of check on the status of our expansion for our new aurora super

14:12 computer and things are going really well by the way and um

14:18 it's uh i i am actually i live about 12 miles away from argonne

14:24 and uh so i'm in the central time zone i'm trying to get all of the points that you

14:29 all have made so i'm i'm in the sc time zone the um

14:35 the the thing that i changed is i actually missed my 20-minute commute

14:42 and i missed having windshield time i still miss having windshield time sometimes i'd make a lot of phone calls

14:49 or uh you know do some business sometimes i just listen to music i don't really get

14:54 that a lot but what i've changed is i have the opportunity to take my non-driving high schooler to

15:02 high school every morning before work starts and we leave a little bit earlier than she

15:07 would normally like but i'm able to to get some windshield time in there

15:13 and uh and listen to music we don't really talk a lot but we listen to a decent amount of music on the way there

15:19 so that's been something that's really been good and i think that that kind of illustrates the point of

15:26 you know the kind of flexibility that is built in to the positive side of you

15:31 know a remote environment or hybrid environment is that you know we're able to build some flexibility into our

15:37 schedule and possibly do things that we weren't able to do before like walking meetings and the likes so elaine

15:44 that was a good point um i say you know following helen is is the

15:51 situation that that we're going through at argonne very similar it's been uh kind of essential personnel

15:58 only we're in this maximum telework environment and we have about 1900 we

16:05 average about 1900 people on site per day out of a normal 5 000 that we would

16:10 have in a in a pre-pandemic mode and part of my duties is

16:15 you know to get us back on site and when we're allowed to do so and do

16:22 that in a safe and productive way so thanks for including me on this it's been great

16:27 well it's uh it's a pleasure because um again you know your perspective on this is

16:32 going to be i think instrumental um especially and you know there are things that we can't uh consider at

16:38 least um when you're working remotely most of the time we don't really understand the complexities of what

16:43 you're going through so that's great to have the two of you on board and how about you chris

16:51 yeah thanks elaine so i'm chris bischoff i'm from the technical university of darmstadt in germany

16:57 here it's now 10 30 in the evening and yeah

17:03 getting kind of late but um in this way we can all get uh

17:08 get together i've been working remote of our ships since march of uh last year like most of

17:15 you um and one of the things that we did at our

17:20 computing center is we very quickly acquired a zoom license passed all the red tape and passed

17:27 our data protection officers which of course said well

17:32 since there is this cloud act in the u.s which allows nsa or such to listen in potentially in

17:38 anything that a used company is doing this violates our eu data protection

17:43 laws which in theory is true but in reality it works great and

17:49 since there hasn't been really a viable alternative yet so the data protection officers have been continually saying

17:55 well i don't think you should use that but since we don't have anything else yet you can continue using it and

18:02 so we do that um and that works great um one of the things that i've started

18:08 doing is um i'm listening in now to some meetings where i otherwise wouldn't go

18:14 to like faculty meetings i'm a professor in computer science i also run the computing center and some faculty

18:20 meetings are well some are more exciting than others if you get my drift

18:26 but i can just listen then when i'm sitting in the car um and if there's

18:32 something relevant i can i can speak up but i can i can become informed and the other way

18:39 the other thing that i do is i schedule short impromptu meetings where we look

18:45 together at some paper some some code some whatever okay

18:52 rather than you know trying to send emails around or schedule a live meeting

18:58 so i basically have much more flexibility in my work day now

19:04 but i also found that there is a real danger of really booking yourself from one evening there have been days where i

19:10 basically stumbled from one meeting to the next and at the end of the day i was exhausted

19:17 and i've learned about this now so i'm also taking breaks i'm taking walking breaks i'm taking the dog out

19:25 and make sure that i remain productive

19:31 and this is something that it took me a while to to learn that i

19:36 need to set myself a structure i need myself to set boundaries

19:41 it's what devon just calls it the windshield time for me it was you know biking to work which is a

19:47 easy 25-minute bike ride but it's wonderful for airing your brain

19:53 out you know hitting the pedals hard when you think of some colleagues that really got in their nerves during the day but

20:00 come home you know in a relaxed state of mind and this is something that i need to work on

20:05 right now but overall given that the university has started to

20:13 with students being backed on campus but for example in the computing center with

20:18 almost 100 star remote um i'm still amazed how well we've gotten through this whole thing

20:27 that's really great to hear that's very positive and i think um in your introduction and i

20:33 see as you're all introducing yourselves that um you may be talking about specific tactics that you use but i

20:40 believe the strategy that you're really speaking to is keeping yourself productive but also how

20:47 to manage your time and manage the situation so

20:52 that you're not getting overwhelmed with others requests on your time and so i

20:58 wanted to just point that out because we had one question or remark in our um slido asking the question will the panel

21:06 be about strategies versus tactics um and the answer is yes certainly and so

21:11 now uh if we can uh kengo would you mind introducing yourself

21:17 can you hear me yes we can so my name is ken gonna so i'm from

21:22 university of tokyo and also working for a region rccs so

21:28 my work in the university of tokyo is i'm working for the super computer center and so operating and the

21:35 procurement and also doing research and also teaching and supervising students

21:41 so in the regional rhesus so my main work is uh supervising the scientists in

21:47 the computer science and management so i i'm really talking about my work on the invest tokyo okay so i started my

21:54 remote work from april 8 2020. so it's uh more than

22:01 seven uh 19 months okay and now i'm

22:07 participating from my home so now it's 6 30 in the morning in japan and so good

22:12 good morning everybody so anyway so so generally so i am enjoying this environment for the

22:19 remote work and so since last year april university tokyo provided

22:26 the zoom license for individual faculty and staff members and it's very

22:32 convenient and so every uh so meeting is online

22:38 uh except so meeting with a student okay so i'll talk about that later so it's a

22:43 very special one and so it's very efficient and uh i think

22:49 the people around me uh so changes their mind to trying to do

22:55 everything in efficient manner and efficient and clear manner so

23:02 and so we have a mostly weekly meeting and so they try to

23:07 put a very clear target towards the next meeting so it changes around me

23:15 and so actually so my office was a 30 minute walk from my

23:20 uh home so just uh around one mile so i enjoyed working

23:27 there and i visited there once a week so last year but unfortunately my office

23:34 has been moved to outside of tokyo from this april so it

23:40 takes a one hour train trip so actually so uh in

23:46 recent six months i visited just twice gay so but anyway so it doesn't matter

23:53 and another good news is uh so as you can see i lost my weight by 20 kilograms

24:00 45 pounds after this uh so remote work so

24:06 i'm so living the very healthy life

24:11 but uh so actually so as i mentioned so these days are very tough for the

24:17 students okay so especially so i have several students who are going to

24:22 write phd 5th and so we need some very important meetings and

24:30 unfortunately the situation is coming down in japan and from october so

24:36 university of tokyo relaxed some emergency conditions so i'm having a

24:43 weekly meetings weekly in person meetings with my students so who are

24:48 who is having the phd defense in next january thank you very much

24:56 thank you i'm really happy that you brought up students because we have some questions about careers so

25:02 you know i'd like to go ahead i'm going to start with um first like i said address the comment when we can let's

25:09 try to elevate what we're talking about from tactic to strategy i think that um we

25:16 all know and we've we've all um heard some great tactics for uh working

25:21 remotely and they're all over the internet so i think the value of this panel is let's take it up a notch and

25:27 let's really um talk about how those tactics relate to our strategies and how

25:33 we as experts and um are in our domain areas how we've

25:38 been able to apply them so the first question i'm going to ask from slido actually is one that has been liked

25:45 12 times and that is will hpc conferences evolve to be permanently

25:50 hybrid will supercomputing learn from the mistakes of the past two years and

25:56 improve the experience for remote attendees i'm not sure that we as panelists can talk about the

26:03 conference unless we're part of the committee but what let's change that question maybe a

26:09 little bit which is um what can conferences learn if they are

26:17 going to evolve to be permanently hybrid and what are some of the mistakes that we've made

26:24 strategically uh moving into uh remote attendance and

26:29 remote participation for the past two years that we can actually do better with now

26:37 and this you don't we won't go in any particular order so please uh feel comfortable to unmute yourself and um

26:45 you know uh have some express your thoughts when you have them

27:02 so i had a leadership role also for [Music]

27:08 super computing 20 the first fully virtual one and i'm deputy up so i'm not

27:14 doing something as active yet aren't you so i will not consider things

27:21 uh in in the negative thing i think it's been a learning experience for all of us

27:28 because uh the team in itself they tried to make

27:34 the experience valuable and useful and engaging for everyone but

27:40 something like super computing which has a big exhibit floor presence which has a lot of

27:46 networking uh type of option it's not is is unlike other so i don't know whether

27:52 we will we can say what we say about organizing an event like supercomputing

27:58 is equally applicable to the to the

28:04 you know research conferences or some other uh more focused levels

28:10 having said that you know life is all about learning i can say from my personal experience as being the chair

28:17 of inviti talks program for last year

28:22 what we could have done maybe i mean in hindsight which is always

28:28 you know 20 20 and we

28:34 we could have probably from a scheduling another even though it was spread over two weeks

28:39 um try to make some kind of a if it was because it was all virtual consistent

28:45 experience so there were two two live streaming and showing in two time

28:51 zones as kengo said we are already the next day we are friday there where can go is still

28:57 thirsty here so some of these things i think uh

29:02 we we were we were probably

29:07 not as much uh you know aware of the other thing is and this is my personal

29:13 experience and there's something probably other can say when i travel for a meeting or a conference people know

29:19 i'm traveling for a meeting on a conference if it's in a different time zone even better but if i'm attending a meeting or a

29:26 conference virtually i have my day job then i am attending or participating or sharing a session another thing

29:32 and there should be a recognition in the sense both from an employer side and at a personal level that we should not put

29:40 us push ourselves also too hard so i think there is a sense of responsibility and reflection or

29:46 retrospective both on our side as a as an individual or technologist on how we

29:53 manage these you know events whether you know especially when we are not somewhere in person

30:00 but at the same time trying to preserve the the importance and necessity for an

30:08 in-person event and and and and and make both experiences valuable

30:15 for participating from an inclusivity point of view i i will say here so we have a lot we learned a lot i

30:21 think this year things have done improved lessons learned but i think i would consider this thing as a

30:28 as a work in progress for a long time to come and it has both responsibility from the

30:34 event organizers side but also from individuals

30:40 great promise thank you anybody else have any thoughts about that i would really agree that it is

30:47 we're still part of a learning process you can see i mean from other other conferences that i've attended

30:54 i've come to the same conclusion as i said i've said that i won't go to many

30:59 virtual conferences it kind of feels like it has to be fully thought through and fully re-engineered

31:07 right now it sort of feels like the virtual conference is um trying to recreate an in-person

31:14 presence and recreate some of the features that make sense only really in an in-person

31:19 setting like we even struggled this year for our our uh doe booths

31:25 or you know we're they're trying to recreate the bloop experience virtually and it doesn't translate that well i

31:31 mean i maybe that it's gone better than i know but i i think that if you're gonna

31:38 some of the thoughts that we've had around really strategizing how could you have

31:43 a very successful hybrid conference would be to understand and appreciate

31:49 the specific elements of the media the mediums that you're in right so that

31:55 you would have things that were about being in person um exhibitor booths and

32:01 vendors and all things those things that you know are help make these conferences affordable right

32:08 so they're at their essential elements um but then you would perhaps have keynotes talks or other events that

32:15 could be attended virtually um and scheduled at times that were sort

32:20 of hit the sweet spots of of you know multiple time zones and you can't do

32:26 that if it's entirely 20 percent entirely global but if it's a primarily

32:32 um north american european maybe there there are some sweet spots you could hit

32:38 where it would be a relatively uh reasonable time for most people to attend but i think we are i think

32:44 actually i feel like we're at the beginning of this learning process we're beginning to tap into some of the elements of the

32:51 tools that make things more equitable i think that using the closed captioning

32:57 element has actually been a really beneficial thing for us in many of our meetings conferences as well so

33:05 those are just some random thoughts in no particular order those are some really great comments um

33:11 the hearing from the two of you is fantastic we have a comment in the um slido chat which uh is to be successful

33:19 virtual attendees need to be considered first class attendees not a burden need to be committed to providing an

33:25 equitable experience which you both have mentioned and so from the level of uh strategy

33:31 um you know it's really sounds like you're you're both right um everybody i think

33:37 when we when the pandemic hit we we went to virtual but we took with us all the

33:44 assumptions and all of the ways of working that we used to have in person and we

33:51 translated it we just plopped it into a virtual environment and we really can't do that effectively what we need to do

33:58 is really think about uh the media that we're using and how can we make those media make the

34:05 communication more effective and so i think that that is a strategy

34:10 that if you're moving forward if you're organizing events or if you're organizing even meetings think about the

34:16 way that the media impact the communication and really use that to

34:22 to elevate the communication that's happening virtually and so devin i know you would like to make a comment so uh

34:28 i'll give you the floor yeah i was just gonna say um that you know this

34:34 comment that was made about uh you know kind of first class attendee um part of the what's great about you

34:40 know cop being at an in-person conference is the shared experience

34:46 so if in the future there's virtual you know um virtual option to all major

34:52 conferences how do you focus on allowing for a shared experience for the virtual

34:57 attendees and i think it's hard it's hard to do it for just virtual and it's

35:02 definitely hard to you can't you know you you can't imagine a scenario where

35:08 you can walk virtually the uh exhibit hall right for example but um maybe

35:14 that's the trick is finding a way to make a tailored uh virtual experience

35:20 that's tailored to the virtual attendee as opposed to um it being like

35:27 you know like oh let's just do what we did before but only virtual you know so making it not a second class

35:35 uh experience and creating uh shared experiences for those people that are attending virtually

35:41 absolutely um i come from the domain of human computer interaction and sometimes what

35:47 we've done is experimented with that at our conferences um so trying to really um integrate the virtual and and real

35:55 and they're i think we're at the cusp of um a lot of innovation quite honestly i think that the the difficult time that

36:01 we have now is really going to give us an opportunity to innovate and so i'd like to move on to another

36:08 question um that we have that's um we've got this is really great that you are

36:14 also engaged on slido so thank you very much for that um let's see so we have another question

36:20 which is um do you foresee more virtual remote employment opportunities at hpc sites in

36:27 the future given how we've learned to work during the pandemic

36:34 and you know pat i mean even in industry i mean let's start with you because i know that um i

36:42 kind of have uh an idea of what you might uh say here but what are your thoughts given what's

36:48 happening um now with um the movement that we're seeing uh regarding virtual remote work yeah you know i sure hope so

36:56 is basically the answer um you know again i said in my intro and i

37:01 i kind of can't stress it enough mathworks has been a company uh that was really

37:06 not big on remote work um and yes we did have offices we do i

37:12 collaborate with a lot of folks in offices in cambridge uk um

37:17 but i'll tell you a thing that i feel like the that this now we're all remote

37:23 uh thing is opened is now everybody's counting on equal footing and i like that a lot right we're all in the zoom

37:29 screen and yeah there are things that are not great about it but we're all there another thing that i

37:36 think has been great about it is is it's really easy to record things so if

37:41 people miss they can follow up a lot more easily than in the past they can't participate

37:47 but they you know we aren't playing telephone necessarily um so now kind of getting back to uh

37:55 the actual question which is like are there going to be more virtual opportunities i believe so and i i

38:00 surely hope so i mean at mathworks we've been running interns completely virtual for the past two

38:06 summers right they you know those interns stay off site they i mean they can come in

38:14 i think um nobody seems to want to so we've had students scattered around the country

38:20 and you know they work purely remote and they engage with their teams just as they have and i mean to add on top of it

38:27 they don't even have a physical machine they get a virtual machine right so it's like virtualization's everywhere and in

38:33 many ways i think it's wonderful and i i do hope that it'll persist um

38:40 because i think it yeah i think it adds value and i think it's it's good and it gets everybody kind of on the same page

38:51 any other thoughts christian tango

38:56 yeah so what can i speak so i i totally agree with pat

39:02 and actually so in india tokyo so we have been hiring new faculty members

39:09 through just so online interview and online evaluations

39:16 so two or three faculty members and also the entrance examination for the reddit school that you have stocked

39:22 with totally now online and it works and so enrique so we are doing the uh so

39:29 virtual uh internship for the domestic students and so unfortunately we cannot

39:35 do that in the international people so because uh so due to that time zone

39:40 but i think the hpc is more feasible to the so this type of the working style so for

39:48 example compared to the experimental biology and i think so

39:54 belgium do more this type of employment employee in the future

39:59 kengo can i ask you a follow-on question because um you brought up the um the

40:05 difference between hpc and for example example experimentalists

40:11 i wonder if you can comment on that um maybe you know what is

40:16 so it's easier you know i've heard it said and we've all heard it said we may have said it that um

40:22 if you're working in um computation you can work from anywhere and so

40:28 can we say a little bit more about that is that absolutely true what if you're collaborating with experimentalists how

40:35 are you impacted okay so uh actually

40:41 i'm mainly working with a geophysicist and so some of them are so

40:49 hard days because they cannot do the on-site observations

40:54 but if they have already have some observational network so it works

40:59 and so it's up to the area and in the case of the our university uh

41:08 so in the case of the experimental works they have some special uh

41:14 admission uh to enter the school even in the very uh so severe conditions

41:20 but it's very limited and so we need to apply the different

41:25 rules for them because they cannot do their work fully remotely

41:32 in my case it's okay thank you how about you chris

41:39 the um employment at the the public sector in germany is pretty highly regulated and

41:46 the university has sort of two sides there's the institutes where your research work with students

41:52 and that's always been kind of freestyle and there's the more administrative

41:58 sector or also the service sector where you've got rules and you have a

42:03 sort of more kind of oversight and people don't like something they can complain a lot of people have

42:11 lifelong positions so you know different kind of setup and what we've

42:16 noticed is um with the um

42:21 moving into the hybrid world so first of all the people who always perform well they perform equally well now some

42:28 people tend to little bit of disappear um the

42:33 and getting new people into teams sometimes works and sometimes doesn't work that well

42:39 so in essence my experience is that well is that work relationships continue working

42:45 well getting new people on board is work okay

42:50 and and you have to invest more work getting people into the organization and make them

42:55 productive and also for example make them trusted members of teams

43:00 okay because one of the things we certainly do is in a zoo meeting

43:06 i wouldn't necessarily say the same things that i would say if i was sitting with somebody in a corner

43:12 not being surrounded by other people where i don't know whether somebody may be recording yeah or taking notes or whatnot

43:20 um so this the trust issue and building trust is one that in the virtual world

43:26 requires more work for the rest clearly we've got many more opportunities for hiring people remotely faculty students

43:33 you name it but really getting them on board and

43:39 for a long-term relationship and that's really what i'm talking about is relationship management requires more

43:45 work than i did before in my ex that's interesting um i didn't realize

43:52 that i wasn't muted so i don't mean to cut you off but um i'm just reacting to to your uh comment

43:59 that the opportunity hiring that's part of it but then the real work begins which is

44:06 um building that trust maintaining that relationship growing it so as a strategy

44:11 it would be to to think about that as uh when we're onboarding and hiring

44:18 so i see two hands up anshu and helen so and she want to go first and helen

44:24 thanks so i'm noticing in slido that people are really sounding enthusiastic about going

44:30 all virtual and asking the conferences to become virtual and pointing out the

44:35 value of hybrid versus non-hybrid and i want to point out that there is a cost

44:40 associated with doing all of that i've just dealt with a hybrid conference and all of us

44:46 who are working for sc are volunteers no one pays us to do this work and it has

44:51 been an order of magnitude more work to make a hybrid conference successful

44:57 so be careful in what you ask for and as far as the other aspects of all virtualization and

45:05 is concerned uh the value of being able to interact with

45:10 people when you are working on a new idea cannot be overemphasized

45:17 because the progress on such ideas really slows down when you're not able to discuss

45:23 them in person and make quick progress so like everything else in life a balance

45:30 is a good good plan

45:36 yeah so i'm i was going to um piggyback on something that chris said

45:43 which was you know it's really hard to onboard people we have found our our

45:49 real life experience um real challenges on boarding people that we've hired remotely we don't have

45:54 any choice right now this is what we have to do but it makes you aware of how much we're

46:00 maybe even subconsciously leveraging the experience we had from being on site so we have this kind of familiarity with or

46:07 a lot of these builds relationships and they are very hard to establish

46:13 and nurture um for for new employees the other thing i was going to say is

46:19 that kind of to andre's point that it's one thing to have something 100

46:26 virtual it's another to have something 100 in person it is three times more

46:32 difficult at least to have it be both while we've been almost entirely virtual

46:38 as uh pat was saying earlier we've been on a level footing but many of us don't want to be

46:46 primarily remote or virtual when we come back we have a lot of students or post-docs

46:53 the bay area is very expensive area to live in so they're in shared apartments they don't have the privacy or the you

47:00 know a good setup to work from home on a persistent basis they're

47:05 going to want the office space and the experience of working at the lab and so then how do we maintain as some as

47:12 another commenter said earlier that we don't that that there's equity that there isn't a first-class second-class

47:20 uh kind of setup so how so we we are anticipating i

47:25 don't have answers we're anticipating some challenges but those are some those are some

47:32 excellent comments uh you know i made the um remark earlier that when we first moved into the

47:39 pandemic we moved into remote and we just took everything from face to face and we just kind of plopped it in that

47:44 environment and the thing is is that we still haven't gotten good no we haven't gotten great at

47:51 virtual communication and hybrid is harder so we should try to become great and

47:58 then take that great virtual communication and all those lessons learned into this hybrid

48:04 environment so we have on one side you know you've got your in person then you have your virtual then the hybrid in the

48:10 center is really should be a combination of being those great at those two different

48:17 modes of communication i think we can do it i think it requires intentionality so

48:22 from a strategic point of view we've got to be intentional about our communication and we've got to be great

48:29 at our communication so that we can then take some of those lessons learned into a much more difficult and more complex

48:37 communication environment and so yes sarah if you have your hand up

48:42 yeah so i i will bring a different perspective because strategies has been mentioned quite a few times

48:49 and typically when i look back in past how many you know

48:54 months there has been a lot of uncertainty like the decisions that are being made

49:01 if i just look at from swiss point of view there are federal level decision then

49:07 there are kentonal which is state level i think in the us term then the local commune level

49:13 decision then the institutional decision you may or may not have a boss who couldn't care less

49:19 and so on and so forth so and then human beings are all different

49:25 we are all wired differently in one way or the other so to me

49:31 there needs to be some educational aspect uh of uh of of this

49:37 this part so i i mean while it is good to come up with a strategy i don't know all of us sitting here

49:44 have been made aware of the impact of the decisions that even i made i will take

49:52 responsibility friendship of decisions i could make but not all of them

49:57 and and i think if you really want to influence the strategy at the like at sea level another is we we really

50:05 there is an uncertainty coming top down but there is also an awareness i really

50:10 do not know what i am missing in the sense of make creating such an equity even for my

50:18 team i simply lack knowledge and information from our social you i can use your

50:23 childhood from a social science perspective because i have never been trained in my academic and other career

50:28 to be aware of that so so i am really accepting my shortcoming

50:34 but i think it exists if i look at my you know pecking order i'm not sure it

50:41 exists at that level above me and above me and above that

50:49 that's an interesting comment thank you yeah um maybe there's some opportunity there for um

50:56 more it's it's interesting because i know in engineering programs for as an example sometimes um

51:03 they'll do things like toastmasters or there's some something in the curriculum maybe a um an elective where they take

51:10 some course to maybe get better at public speaking or something in the humanities and so maybe

51:17 in the future we'll start to add media literacy courses or

51:22 understanding media communication we'll see that's a very interesting idea

51:28 i wonder if um you um you know helen and devin uh and uh chris you're um going to the

51:36 office so i'm wondering or maybe not chris but helen and devin so uh what do you think about this whole idea of

51:42 hybrid and it's going to be tough for you how do you have any idea on what your

51:47 strategy is going to be to to and have an environment that is equitable

51:52 and really leverages virtual and in-person work

51:58 um you know one thing that we're doing at lbl is that our i.t division

52:05 has created kind of a showcase area where you can go and try out different

52:12 technologies there's something called owl and various

52:17 different things that help uh make a more immersive experience for a hybrid

52:23 environment so you can have not only the people in the room but um people

52:29 uh you know zooming in or whatever that the platform

52:35 uh there there's a sort of more dynamic interface there's there are ways to draw

52:42 on the board one of the limitations we have found is it's difficult to do any kind of

52:48 whiteboarding so to speak so so we're definitely exploring more technologies

52:53 and i think um you know that that will be part of the equation also uh you know what

53:01 a little bit confusing but um we have a lot of energy going into

53:06 planning for the future of work that's what they're calling it here probably that is a doe terms that i see devin um

53:13 nodding as well and in that environment they're calling what they're referring to as a hybrid worker is somebody who's

53:20 who's uh coming in some of the time and uh and telecommuting some of the time so that's

53:27 considered the hybrid worker in the future of work parlance but um

53:33 trying to have a truly hybrid uh office environment i i think is uh

53:40 is going to mean re you know reconfiguring a lot of our our conference rooms and uh

53:46 taking advantage of whatever technologies there are there and then probably also revisiting sort of uh best

53:54 meeting practices um some of some of those you know some of the ways that we're

54:00 used to running meetings may you know may put people at a disadvantage so um

54:07 you know i do i would also say that we're struggling with um

54:13 definitely the feeling of you know a large part of the workforce at lbl are

54:18 post-docs and there is a strong feeling that they need to have an on-site

54:23 experience typically in the computing sciences area it's a relatively short postdoc two

54:30 to maybe three years but most often two but it's a pivotal time in somebody's career and a chance for them to to

54:39 find mentors find collaborators make those cross-area connections with

54:46 other domains of science and that we need to make sure that there is that

54:51 experience for them and that requires um that there also be a lot of senior

54:56 management on site so we have yet to work it out just anticipating some of the challenges

55:04 thank you helen so chris chris had his hand up and then devin thank you

55:09 yeah so one of the things i've uh will be more

55:15 predictable with doing which i found was really working well is having certain predictable days where

55:21 i'm in the office so people know i'm around and then they

55:26 they come and see me and they usually make sure that these days are also not completely booked from beginning to land

55:31 so if somebody comes by we can chat about some stuff and i found that this is very useful both for staff

55:39 as well as in particular for for students where they can quickly bounce off ideas

55:45 and it is just much more spontaneous than a

55:51 scheduled zoo meeting even though in the end we may talk about the same stuff i get a lot of side information that way

55:58 and i find that saves me a lot of emails and other stuff that people otherwise would create

56:04 and it does recreate a kind of a shared space where people know they'd be around and sometimes

56:10 and you know one of the days i try to be around is like a thursday afternoon or friday afternoon and then we sit around

56:16 we have a beer before we go home and then everybody feels better i certainly do

56:27 thank you devon yeah so uh what helen said all the same experiences

56:34 at argonne i mean we're testing out tech we have pilots we have showcases

56:40 we're looking at uh you know meeting norms and documenting uh meeting

56:46 norms and i think all of that is kind of more tactical you know in terms of um

56:53 you know the strategic word i would use is intentionality you know intentionality of communication

56:59 channels intentionality of meeting norms inclusion of remote you know participants and

57:06 whatever you're doing inclusive practices um but uh one of the things that's a

57:12 problem for a big organization like argonne or berkeley or whatever is um

57:17 is you know it's we tend to put we bend people up

57:23 or we plan for people in these certain categories like four categories we we

57:29 probably all have some categorization of what hybrid looks like for people you know people that primarily are on site

57:35 are rarely on site and shades in between and all that we're trying to um to break free from

57:42 that a little bit more strategically and and not have it be on a weekly time scale

57:48 my boss rick stevens calls it hybrid in time not hybrid in space

57:53 you know we we're we want to um talk about you know space planning and fixing up conference rooms

58:00 and adding new technology and having more collaboration spaces and all that but really it's um when you get down to

58:06 the individual level you know people want flexibility and they want but they also want collaboration and it

58:12 collaboration is good for them whether or not whether they know it or not even especially earlier career people

58:19 and so how do we do that in a when you look at it on a year basis instead of on

58:25 a week basis and you know maybe you're traveling you know to conferences some period of

58:31 time and but everybody that you're collaborating with is going to those conferences you know and then maybe you're doing

58:37 me work for some period of time you know and you're doing it from some

58:43 other part of the country and then when you're doing the we work everybody is getting together and doing wework you

58:49 know and not thinking of it on a week by week basis but on a annualized basis which has kind of lifted our

58:56 lid a little bit so just thinking of it from those terms

59:06 go ahead sadaf yeah thank you oh devin's hand is still up yeah i mean

59:11 what devin said is like awareness i think we are getting becoming more and more aware of these things but i would

59:17 like to answer this but you elaine you said what is working effectively and

59:22 um i think majority of us work in

59:27 very multicultural organizations so i am on the italian southern side of you know

59:33 europe and and it has been hard for them i mean you

59:39 don't see if you don't see someone and you kiss them like a couple of times or more then you haven't even started the

59:44 conversation and just imagine these types of interaction during covet

59:50 it it so there is a very big cultural side of of of of this this i don't know

59:56 situation transition we are in that that is impacting all of us uh

1:00:02 in different way so what i felt in my

1:00:09 experience and and again giving feedback on on this awareness side especially from a

1:00:14 cultural point of view is is that people i mean

1:00:20 even in a nerdy environment there are different people my interactions with some people

1:00:26 improved a whole lot because they we talk about equity or

1:00:33 you know having for because they are one way or the other far more engaging

1:00:40 and productive through virtual channels then they are um in a

1:00:46 face like i i suffer from this cognitive overload when then there are too many people moving around colors lights

1:00:53 sounds and and so but my job requires me throughout i do

1:00:59 it so i think the positive side of this thing is now people have

1:01:04 options and the managers or bosses have options to sort of cater

1:01:10 engaging and engagement of different stuff so i can say for pers my at my

1:01:16 personal level i learned it you know i don't know in some water ad hoc manner

1:01:23 but i would really also encourage management or higher management to increase this awareness so

1:01:29 we we could at least in our community which are not known to be you know socially that mature

1:01:36 or sociable at that time [Music] in in that in that area

1:01:42 to to really encourage um engagement from uh from teams and build even

1:01:49 i would call it a stronger team not at an expense of

1:01:54 the staff that are far more productive and make much more stronger teams

1:02:00 in an in-person setting not because of and because of personality but simply

1:02:05 because of a cultural background they come from

1:02:11 sir that's a really great comment something we haven't talked about is the the cultural layer um of you know just work in general but

1:02:20 how it might change even you know when you move to a different work environment so what you thought

1:02:28 uh your assumption about a culture or your experience in an in-person environment may

1:02:33 completely changed um you know when you move to virtual or or there may be a different nuance and so that's really

1:02:40 quite interesting and culture can be anything from organizational uh national

1:02:46 it can be even you know your team culture so there there is a question that i missed that i want to make sure we get

1:02:52 to uh it's it's i think um a question that uh is being asked um

1:02:59 just uh again you know this is something that impacts industry um as well

1:03:04 and that is this idea that um when someone's working remotely that um their

1:03:09 pay should change and so um does anyone want to answer

1:03:14 that what do you think about that ping so devin you're shaking your head no does that mean would you like to go first

1:03:21 that means i didn't want to answer that okay sorry i picked you picked on you

1:03:30 all right you don't have to answer that um yeah that's it i mean i i will i will say um

1:03:36 you know that's something that's being looked at you know uh it seems um

1:03:43 kind of especially when you're talking about uh like helen's gonna steal someone away from

1:03:50 argonne you know and they're gonna pay bay area wages

1:03:58 kind and they're going to stay here in the chicago it seems kind of uh almost unfair or unequitable but um

1:04:05 but that's competition i guess i think our all of our collective hr departments are

1:04:10 really looking at this uh very hard you know looking at this you

1:04:15 know kind of regional pay and and adjusting i don't think it's caught up yet but helen's gonna tell me tell you

1:04:21 how she's gonna steal away all of our talent you're muted hill

1:04:27 go ahead helen yeah we

1:04:32 they were looking at regional pay at uh at lbl um and one of the

1:04:38 so one of the things we run at berkeley labs is that is esnet right the the doe

1:04:44 super terabit skill dedicated network and they are already a

1:04:51 very distributed workforce and so they said if you're going to come in you know we have these people they they their

1:04:58 salaries were established you're going to start telling them you're going to redline them or potentially decrement

1:05:04 their salaries that we're going to lose people that we compete for this talent

1:05:09 um across the country because there are lots of organizations that will support remote workers and so we'll just lose

1:05:16 out on you know we need a cyber you know network cyber security expert we won't be able to get

1:05:21 one so there were that then there was also a look at you know how many other parts of the country

1:05:29 have you know the comparable living expenses in any case what what i was going to say is

1:05:34 they they put a lot of energy into this they identified the populations there was so

1:05:40 much blowback that they have pulled back from it and they're at least not going to do anything right now and are going

1:05:46 to reconsider so it's

1:05:52 it's that but i do appreciate what what devin is saying right but

1:05:57 well i mean you know it goes the other way too because the chicago area is a little bit more expensive than say east

1:06:03 tennessee yeah exactly so um you know i think it's it's much more

1:06:09 complicated than just pay though too it's also benefits and you know uh some hmo options and things like that

1:06:16 it's very complicated issues so it's it's definitely being looked at you know

1:06:23 i'm curious uh kengo and chris how about um you know in your

1:06:30 institutions are you thinking about this as well

1:06:37 so actually i have no idea about that but uh so

1:06:44 in the beginning of this situation uh so last year april so we have a lot of

1:06:50 so very urgent works are switching to the summer digital

1:06:55 uh environment and i heard that some of the so related engineers were so

1:07:02 awarded for that work but so yeah i i think

1:07:09 the university is very very strong in everything and so they are now trying to

1:07:16 uh constructs uh so very digital environment and that

1:07:22 try to hire such people so yeah such as a very expert in the security or network

1:07:29 so yeah i think it's just uh starting here in

1:07:35 universal tokyo that's interesting so then um is it a competitive environment a

1:07:42 competitive hiring environment for you

1:07:47 i don't know sorry that's okay yeah how about you chris any thoughts on this topic

1:07:54 so so pay is is pretty highly regulated here um

1:07:59 and if you work at the technical university then you could page pretty much the same

1:08:05 if the you know work in a similar position independent of where you're at and also anticipate that down the road

1:08:12 um full fully remote

1:08:18 will be the exception will remain an exception i think most

1:08:23 people will still maintain a regional presence there will be some time where they will show up at work to

1:08:30 communicate with their colleagues and then other times their own simply because in the right

1:08:36 mind area you've got a ton of traffic and sitting in traffic is no fun okay um and i think that's

1:08:44 and whether um say with with the unions that govern some of the rules

1:08:49 and regulations they'll sort of look at fully virtual presence as

1:08:56 something that they really want to support that is unclear to me right now the only thing i know is that the nine

1:09:02 to five everyday number that's gone out the window

1:09:09 that's a good comment there's a question that's um related to hybrid work

1:09:16 and i've also heard this discussed a lot for um

1:09:22 employees that have to go into work they're in person they're having a lot of virtual meetings with colleagues

1:09:29 and so they're they're in the in-person location but their meetings are still virtual

1:09:34 how and what can we do about that

1:09:44 i don't think we're ever going to get away from that i mean and i think that um

1:09:51 i think it's i heard a lot of things about trying to evolve uh technology and

1:09:56 and rebuild conference rooms and rebuild shared spaces like i think that's the direction we're gonna have to go

1:10:02 um i think that like it or not people on site are gonna be in virtual

1:10:09 meetings i think that's just the way it's gonna be um i mean certainly you know my team has

1:10:15 even before the pandemic began my team became more globally distributed i have a person who reports to me who left

1:10:22 massachusetts which is where we're located and went to munich and so we were very concerned about trying to

1:10:29 continue to have this person integrated in the team in a meaningful way and then you know

1:10:35 the pandemic hit and kind of did it for me in the sense that you know it's like oh now we're all remote

1:10:40 um but i mean the point here is that you know we we transitioned our meetings to

1:10:46 being virtual and we even we even spent a week uh piloting for ourselves a collection

1:10:54 of meetings where everyone is in their own office the offices are physically co-located but

1:10:59 everyone was on uh skype i think it was at the time so this is the end of 2019

1:11:05 and the team actually really liked it now now no one probably would like it they'd

1:11:10 be begging to all be in the same place but um i i don't think we're going to get away

1:11:16 from it and we're going to have to look for some of the things i think you said earlier become great virtual communicators to even have a

1:11:24 prayer of being halfway decent at hybrid so i just don't i think it's here to

1:11:29 stay that's that's really interesting yeah i am i

1:11:34 i think uh you're raising some really good points that are uh quite controversial but it's really about you

1:11:41 know getting really great at virtual work and i've been in situations too where it's co-located where um we're in

1:11:47 co-located offices but um online and basically you brought up a

1:11:53 geographical distribution and you know for these um global companies or being

1:11:59 geographically distributed there are lessons learned that we can we can look to so it's not like that

1:12:05 hasn't been done by a lot of organizations so devin go ahead i'm just going to make a point about the

1:12:11 complexity of you know converting our spaces into these great collaborative

1:12:17 spots there's this movement of all these office spaces to go you know open

1:12:22 there's nothing more miserable than trying to be on a zoom call in your open space

1:12:28 or even in a cubicle for that matter so how do we accommodate that you know moving forward if we did get to this you

1:12:36 know big time hybrid you know making sure that everyone has a spot that's not

1:12:41 you know a bunch of one-sided conversations happening in the same co-located open space so

1:12:56 sarah do you have your hand up yeah so i think the other thing i also

1:13:02 reflected and i came and i will bring up because we are in an at a super computing high performance computing

1:13:08 conference we didn't go from zero to infinity in

1:13:13 our community because as it was mentioned by different you know

1:13:18 groups that we had a virtual component in our lives

1:13:24 for a long time not okay like this but so

1:13:29 in a way we were or i considered

1:13:35 you know it had quite a privileged position in this because

1:13:41 i know several industries they like government offices another they had to do like go from zero to

1:13:48 whatever uh in in in a matter of a day and for some institutions like i heard

1:13:55 from at universities they had plans to make the transition in five ten years they made the transition in like two

1:14:01 weeks or something like that from uh from in person teaching so i think in our community

1:14:08 from a from that point of view you know regional diversity as well as diversity of the

1:14:15 subject areas we work across domains in most cases as kanga also mentioned

1:14:20 so we always had this component so i i i think i mean i also try appreciating that part

1:14:27 quite a bit having said that we at least i can say for personally for

1:14:33 myself or my institution we didn't manage virtual very well i mean there were some people suffered a lot because

1:14:40 of loneliness because people work some people just can't work from home some people have small kids in a small

1:14:46 apartment things like that and we didn't manage it well uh in that regard so i i can't even begin to

1:14:52 imagine what happens in in in in sort of working uh where people

1:14:58 didn't have this experience of working having you know remote meetings at all

1:15:05 so i think in a way i feel like this is something

1:15:10 we should really sort of try to not only help ourselves a little bit more that's why i think

1:15:16 we need to take we have some of these awareness meeting teaching classes at all of our

1:15:22 organizational level because we are solving the logistic problem of hybrid

1:15:27 work but we are really not paying attention from a

1:15:33 teaching or training point of view because in our community we consider that thing as a you know when everything

1:15:39 is said and done then we worry about the cultural aspect the human engagement and those aspects and i think

1:15:45 this is a very opportune time for our hpc or technical high performance computing community which is very

1:15:52 diverse to maybe have this type of awareness and education and training at

1:15:59 least offered not mandated but at least being offered to us because i would have definitely

1:16:05 used it rather than running in an ad hoc and trial and error

1:16:11 based on trial and error buses

1:16:17 it's a really good comment and uh maybe uh maybe in the future future uh

1:16:23 sc conferences we can offer some tutorials you know who knows so we have um

1:16:30 really about 12 more minutes left of the panel and so and and do you realize i

1:16:35 have not asked a single question uh that uh from my prepared list they've all been uh slido questions and so i

1:16:42 really want to thank everyone in the audience uh for for your engagement and

1:16:49 if you have any other questions please try to get them in what i'd like to do

1:16:54 is i'm going to ask one question from my list and

1:16:59 if we can go around and answer it and then if there are no questions in slido um

1:17:04 i'd like to go around again where maybe each of you has an opportunity to

1:17:10 to give the audience one takeaway uh you know you've given your time and energy

1:17:16 to be on this panel you may have not have had the time to say everything you wanted to say so i'd like to give you

1:17:22 that chance to say the you know one thing that you really wanted to come to this panel and say

1:17:27 and so um it while you think about that the question i'm going to ask is

1:17:33 if if we could imagine uh the perfect hybrid situation what would it be for

1:17:40 you it doesn't you can think as broadly or as narrowly as you like

1:17:47 who uh would like to go first who has an idea about that it's a hard question i think it's not a softball

1:17:58 how about i go first i'll give you a little bit of time so um

1:18:04 for me i think um a really excellent um hybrid situation

1:18:10 for me would be one where whether i'm in person or i'm remote

1:18:17 i feel like i am a contributing member of the workforce

1:18:23 and i feel that i'm able to do my work and my job the best way that i can and

1:18:28 i'm getting support from my organization that i'm able to do good science that

1:18:34 it doesn't matter if i'm in person or virtual with my colleagues

1:18:40 where there's a lot of respect um and where we are focused on helping

1:18:46 each other and i think for me the big takeaway is that being hybrid

1:18:52 is going to affect all of us every single person has a role in making the future great whether you're going to

1:18:59 be mostly in person or whether you're going to be mostly virtual or somewhere in between what we're really talking

1:19:05 about here are scenarios of work we all move fluidly in between them it isn't

1:19:10 about i'm this or i'm that and i think that that for me is a perfect uh hybrid

1:19:16 work scenario so who would like to go next either with your big takeaway you'd like to leave

1:19:22 the audience with or or answering this what's your perfect hybrid scenario

1:19:30 i i can go next um i mean it is a very selfish point of view from my part

1:19:39 i would like a situation where if i have a meeting like this i have more memories about the meeting

1:19:46 for instance i i know of course can go and ancho for a long time but majority of you i don't know

1:19:53 and i'm quite confident i won't remember a thing because when i meet people in person i

1:19:59 have so much contextual information where they are what they were eating doing there was this background

1:20:06 and my i simply without constr that contextual memory i have no memory

1:20:12 so for me a perfect hybrid whatever that turns out to be i wish i can

1:20:19 i can use my memory better in remembering people uh after such events

1:20:26 and this is this is going to be for me at a personal level very important

1:20:34 fantastic thank you can yes please can go

1:20:40 okay so i have a different point of view so uh so i'm in japan and so it's uh so

1:20:47 away from both of the europe and usa was a viewpoint of the time zone

1:20:52 i think the biggest issue was uh so really hybrid

1:20:58 working of course uh especially for the internationally so it's a time zone so

1:21:04 yeah i think i don't know the so specific technology but if we construct

1:21:12 uh such technology uh to remove the so

1:21:17 difficulties for the time zone so it's a perfect uh virtual uh hybrid environment

1:21:25 i have no answer about that but uh so yeah i think so anybody can do some

1:21:31 research in this area and that's my so hope for the

1:21:38 hybrid environment yeah we can leverage uh the and the research going on in uh human

1:21:45 computer interaction and computer support cooperative work and robotics for that devon please

1:21:52 so it's kind of related to what ted have said about the uh uh you know

1:21:58 what the takeaways are you know you interact with people a little bit more um regularly when they're on your team

1:22:05 and i i really early on in the pandemic we started doing you know after hours

1:22:10 the kind of regular after hours uh happy hours and um

1:22:16 i tell you what this is with my direct you know my direct reports i got to know my people a lot better and uh um and

1:22:24 people are more authentic and uh we trust each other more

1:22:29 i mean more than you know you would it's hard it's a lot of times it's hard yeah nothing else to do i guess i'm in

1:22:36 the beginning part because you couldn't really get out but um it it that part is a key takeaway for me

1:22:42 is really you know in in beyond this is not just in a virtual but how do i

1:22:48 create uh especially we onboarded a new employee during that period of time how

1:22:53 do we pull somebody into the fold and really be intentional and get to know the the whole person

1:23:00 because we got to know a lot about people's family situations or how far they live from the lab and all that really

1:23:07 investing in people their whole self not just you know the

1:23:13 bell the bell you know 8 a.m to 5 p.m or whatever so that's my key takeaway

1:23:19 that's great thank you okay five more minutes so um who would like to go next

1:23:27 pat please thank you then chris yeah um

1:23:32 boy you know what devin said there that that's that's key and i think you know that's

1:23:40 probably for me that that figures very very big time into one of my

1:23:45 visions for kind of perfect hybrid um generally like i'm i'm skeptical of hybrid things uh i

1:23:52 think hybrid just as often uh combines the worst features of two things rather than the best features and

1:23:59 i think it's it's our job and it's our deep endeavor to try to not do that and like let's take the best of both worlds

1:24:06 i think it can be done but it takes a remarkable amount of energy um but like in my in my in my perfect kind

1:24:13 of hybrid situation most of the in-person gathering is going to be driven at you know

1:24:19 team meals collaborating with people in places where not everything is necessarily about work

1:24:26 but you do like man you need that room you got to have that room for those kind of spontaneous conversations like i saw

1:24:33 uh i saw a uh a question in the slido here people asking questions like

1:24:40 have you been inhibited and this isn't exactly what it said but more or less what i read was have you been inhibited

1:24:45 by kind of like connecting with senior management with junior people right like a lot of good things happen when

1:24:53 the the new person in town bumps into the senior manager in the in the company kitchen

1:24:58 and i miss that i mean i'm not a new person but you know i'm i'm not really gonna go

1:25:04 schedule time with my senior director for example but maybe i would bump into her in the

1:25:09 hall and be able to get that kind of connection so like boy i missed that and in my perfect

1:25:15 hybrid we'd be doing that and yet i still have kind of the flexibility to haul the kids to hockey

1:25:21 practice right which has kind of been one of the big benefits i mean i know devin said earlier he's he's taken his high school

1:25:28 age not able to drive yet uh family member to school and yeah you

1:25:33 know and there's there's a lot of value in that kind of stuff so

1:25:39 that's great thank you yeah chris you're next well i just want to emphasize uh

1:25:46 what uh lester said by pat i mean it's really it's really crucially important to have

1:25:54 space for unplanned in-person meetings and i think one of the challenges will be

1:26:00 to come up with mutually agreed on times where we allow for that because you know when everybody does their

1:26:06 optimizes their own life they'll be little overlap with other people um and will end up

1:26:13 jumping in hopping it behind the computer turning on whatever

1:26:18 the appropriate solution is maybe it's going to be with virtual reality down the road so i see

1:26:23 you 3d okay um and yeah

1:26:29 but as salaf said it's a shallow experience um i mean we've been as humans conditioned

1:26:35 over many many years to function the way we are and uh two years of zoom are going to change

1:26:40 that and how we organize ourselves in an organization to allow for that

1:26:47 that is something that i'm curious how this is going to work

1:26:52 out but i think it's crucial excellent point thank you and so helen i

1:26:59 i guess you're the last one to take us home uh well i i think that it's been um

1:27:06 um intimated by a lot of the other comments but i think it would be a wonderful

1:27:11 outcome if we could achieve in a hybrid work environment a better work-life balance for ourselves for our staff i i

1:27:19 know you know the benefit of taking or maybe

1:27:24 even getting to stay for a hockey practice and

1:27:30 not stressing out so much about picking up um your little one at a child care center where you're fine a minute

1:27:37 a dollar a minute for every minute you're late you know just this those everyday

1:27:42 stresses if we could really harness the

1:27:49 that flexibility to afford a better work life balance a smaller carbon footprint

1:27:59 easier parking on site that would be a huge a huge win

1:28:08 wow yes so these are these comments i think um

1:28:13 are resonating with everybody and i really want to thank you very much

1:28:19 thanks to the audience uh thanks to uh the panelists you all were fantastic and i really

1:28:25 enjoyed this panel this was by far um one of the best so thank you for that

1:28:31 and we managed it without any um issues so so this is great

1:28:38 so for those of you who are at the conference enjoy it i hope that

1:28:43 you will think of us and i'm going to just put out a little plug for the scivis showcase please pass

1:28:51 by and take a look at it we've worked really hard to to produce that and

1:28:57 and so we're really um happy with the outcome so thank you very much for connecting

1:29:03 from japan uh germany switzerland but locally in

1:29:09 uh st louis uh california chicago uh it's minis michigan

1:29:17 pats in michigan massachusetts massachusetts okay the other end all over there you go so

1:29:24 anyway thank you very much to everyone and i hope you have a great rest of the

1:29:29 conference and thank you elaine for for putting this together really it was it was great

1:29:34 oh thank you and thanks to louis mcdonald thank you and lois mcinnis did a great

1:29:40 job of assembling this panel too so i appreciate that i'll let her know okay thanks everyone take care and um

1:29:48 it's i'm

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