Zeus Kerravala, Principal Analyst, ZK Research

ZKast with Chris Preimesberger

Industry Voices SD-WANSecurity
Zeus Kerravala Headshot
ZKast logo and side-by-side photos of Zeus Kerravala, ZK Research (left) and Chris Preimesberger, Editor Emeritus at eWeek, for discussion of technology trends and Secure Access Service Edge. Arista, Juniper, IBM, and Dell logos on right.

Industry expert Zeus Karravala says Juniper’s approach to SASE is unique and promising

Karravala and eWeek editor Chris Preimesberger report on the latest industry news, including their thoughts on Juniper’s new portal to SASE: the Security Director Cloud.

Show more

You’ll learn

  • How Juniper is leading efforts in the SASE market with Security Director Cloud 

  • How Juniper’s approach to SASE helps users transition seamlessly and securely to the new architecture

  • How you can mitigate risks and reduce costs adopting a SASE architecture

Who is this for?

Network Professionals Security Professionals


Zeus Kerravala Headshot
Zeus Kerravala
Principal Analyst, ZK Research

Guest speakers

Chris Preimesberger Headshot
Chris Preimesberger
Editor Emeritus at eWeek


0:00 [Music]

0:04 hello everybody i'm diaz caravallo from

0:06 zk research and i'm here for another

0:08 episode of z cast and i'm here with uh

0:11 my co-uh i guess my co-host here

0:14 chris ramsburger from uh uh

0:18 editor emeritus of eweek still so chris

0:21 how you doing

0:22 okay thanks i'm i'm feeling kind of

0:24 collegial or

0:25 academic with that title so anyway

0:28 editor emeritus yeah you

0:30 just need the hat or something like that

0:31 yeah sure yeah so as soon as you

0:33 do you have tenure oh well let me tell

0:36 you

0:37 so this was uh this week was kind of a

0:40 big week in

0:41 you know in uh in the world of device

0:43 because dell technology world and

0:45 uh the digital version of it and dell

0:47 tech week is always a big week because

0:48 you always get to hear

0:50 uh the latest and greatest from dell

0:51 this is the first one

0:53 after the vmware split though and uh i

0:56 want to start off talking a little bit

0:57 about

0:58 michael's you know to michael dale's

1:00 keynote

1:01 um it was kind of an odd you know

1:04 it didn't have a lot of new products to

1:07 it i do think he talked

1:08 a lot about societal trends though and

1:11 he sort of gave

1:12 the whole tech industry a pen on the pad

1:13 on the back saying that

1:15 uh how the tech industry like companies

1:17 like dell

1:18 helped avoid a complete societal

1:20 economic meltdown

1:22 and that's that's a little strong but i

1:25 do think

1:26 it was technology that helped us kind of

1:28 get through the pandemic and it's gonna

1:30 uh help you know help us get uh you know

1:34 come out the other side of this so

1:35 no question about it no question michael

1:38 gave us some good examples of use cases

1:40 too of this new tech

1:42 yeah use cases are great examples

1:46 you know uh real world examples of how

1:48 this stuff works

1:49 and he was able to explain jeff clark

1:51 too they were able to explain it pretty

1:53 well

1:55 yeah i think one of the uh one of the

1:58 interesting things he talked about was

1:59 the evolution of the iot department and

2:01 i have a quote here where he said uh

2:03 technology is no longer the i.t

2:05 department it's not the entire

2:06 organizations how you enable everything

2:08 and we've never been more central or

2:10 more relevant and i couldn't be

2:12 prouder uh to be part of this community

2:14 and i thought that was sort of a press

2:16 endpoint in that

2:17 uh you know we've been saying for a long

2:18 time that every company is a tech

2:19 company

2:20 but that you know certainly um you know

2:23 that's a pretty

2:24 that's a pretty general term you know it

2:26 is

2:27 yeah it is every company is tech because

2:29 people use computers and smart phones

2:31 and

2:32 you know that all that but um michael is

2:35 right in that

2:36 um you know line of business employees

2:39 now are helping design their own

2:40 applications they're adding features

2:43 they're

2:43 you know they're you don't have to

2:45 always go to the it department to get

2:46 something done so the whole company is

2:48 really participating

2:50 in in the i.t system of the company

2:53 whether you like it or not

2:54 that's what it is the way it is now yeah

2:56 one of the parts that techie did talk a

2:57 lot about though was the edge and

2:59 certainly edges become this edge is a

3:01 bit of a weird turn because it means

3:02 everything now frankly that's not cloud

3:04 but

3:05 uh he did set a gartner stat saying that

3:07 only 10 percent of data today

3:09 is processed outside the data center

3:11 however by 75 percent

3:13 um or by 2025 that will be 75 with much

3:16 of that being

3:17 out at the edge and so dell's been very

3:19 busy integrating and creating new

3:21 edge solutions with you know with vmware

3:24 and actually he

3:24 i thought he did a good job of of

3:26 actually explaining the dell vmware

3:29 split with because it wasn't the two

3:32 companies are still going to work

3:33 together

3:34 but post breakup they'll actually

3:36 formalize a lot of the things they put

3:38 in place and so

3:39 i think that's important for customers

3:40 because on our last you know z

3:42 cast we did talk about the implications

3:44 to dell and that maybe without vmware

3:47 they they get out of lockstep with them

3:48 but

3:49 that doesn't appear to be the case and

3:50 obviously michael's the chairman of both

3:52 right so you know that's going to

3:54 continue mike michael's still going to

3:56 own 41

3:57 of vmware too that's pretty healthy cut

3:59 yeah

4:00 yeah especially when they're paying out

4:01 that uh multi-billion dollar dividend so

4:03 you'll get a good piece of that so

4:05 um he also talked about night and i

4:07 wasn't sure you know you're

4:09 you've been around for a while he you

4:11 know what you think

4:12 statement he talked about the pc uh

4:15 being our lifeline and you know he did

4:18 talk

4:19 he did talk about how i think in 2020

4:21 they shipped it almost 143 000 pcs every

4:24 day

4:25 uh that worked out to 99 every minute

4:28 and so you know a lot of people look at

4:31 pcs as being kind of the old device

4:32 because we're now more on these mobiles

4:34 and tablets and things

4:36 but you know they're it's although

4:39 the downside of that though there's kind

4:42 of a commodity it's hard to really

4:43 differentiate one pc from another unless

4:45 you're really willing to pay

4:46 you know i've got a macbook pro here

4:48 which was you know yeah

4:50 so yeah i've i've tested enough pcs to

4:52 know that they're very very similar in

4:54 what they do

4:55 some are better at at certain aspects of

4:58 the pc than others

5:00 some are lighter some are heavier you

5:02 know that you know all that

5:03 but i still think the pc is kind of like

5:06 email it won't go away

5:08 you know um yeah email email is an

5:10 important business tool and a personal

5:12 tool

5:13 and so is a pc you know uh sometimes you

5:16 just need to have a bigger screen to

5:17 look at something to look at something

5:18 closely

5:19 or to do a video conference rather than

5:22 a cell phone so

5:23 or a tablet so i think there's still a

5:26 big mark i think michael's right there's

5:27 still a big market for pcs and i think

5:29 there will be for a while yet

5:31 one of the issues he did bring up which

5:33 i'm not sure how we

5:35 uh solve this is um

5:38 you know he he didn't talk about how in

5:39 the us alone there's 10 million students

5:41 without a pc uh 10 million in japan and

5:44 over 40 million in western europe

5:46 without a pc so

5:47 if it is that important and we're trying

5:49 to democratize opportunity in the world

5:52 um how do we close that gap and how do

5:54 we get the millions of people out there

5:55 without pcs to have pcs and

5:57 that's something i think dealt with

5:58 their supply chain you know

6:00 nobody manages supply chain and things

6:02 better than dell

6:04 and uh you know perhaps they should be

6:06 looking at how you create an ultra

6:08 an ultra low cost pc to be able to go

6:10 get to those so

6:11 you know because a lot of those people

6:13 uh you know in the underserved

6:14 communities tend to have mobile only and

6:16 so that's

6:16 that is a big opportunity for somebody

6:18 to solve google tried to do that with

6:20 chromebook

6:21 not really that successful but that

6:23 that's certainly a gap in

6:25 in the tech industry that hasn't been

6:26 solved yet i think it's a huge

6:27 opportunity i'm sure michael knows about

6:29 he's probably working on it right now

6:31 but you're right an ultra low cost for

6:34 underserved and for

6:35 you know people who don't really have

6:36 the money to buy a pc

6:38 great idea and it can only help dell's

6:42 image and business going forward yeah

6:44 well maybe you and i can start up a

6:46 company that'll do that so

6:47 okay um the big news from the event

6:49 though is project apex

6:50 right so uh officially known as apex now

6:54 which is really dell as a service i know

6:57 chris you wrote

6:58 a pretty comprehensive article on e-week

7:01 why don't you tell us what apex is

7:04 yeah they introduced it last year but

7:05 they've been working on this for quite a

7:07 long time i don't exactly know how long

7:10 but um you know every company now seems

7:12 to have its own platform

7:13 it's a general data management platform

7:15 that can do lots of things

7:18 this is theirs and what it does is it

7:21 really kind of combines control

7:25 of data storage services in the cloud

7:29 and on-premises so if you're a company

7:32 and you've got a data center or

7:34 just some servers you know housing data

7:38 and company documents you can hook that

7:41 in

7:42 to this management uh console and then

7:44 you can also hook in your you know

7:46 aws or azure or whatever

7:50 deployment in the cloud and see them

7:51 both and be able to uh

7:53 to use them mix and match whatever you

7:55 need

7:56 that's a good thing uh what else they

7:59 also have

8:00 a custom solutions um

8:03 uh thing that that dell will work with

8:06 you to figure out what your use case is

8:08 or what other services you might need

8:10 to get that done through their platform

8:12 and the platform itself apex

8:15 is managed totally by dell so you don't

8:17 have to worry about

8:18 you know an instance in your data center

8:20 or anywhere else

8:22 they will handle it it's a like a

8:25 virtual party or data center

8:27 if you don't have a data center um so it

8:30 looks and also the other thing the other

8:32 news from the

8:33 from the from the first day of dell

8:36 technologies world that was important is

8:39 that dell

8:40 and equinix are getting together to

8:43 do a big partnership and that's

8:44 significant because

8:46 equinix is the world's largest

8:48 independent data center owner

8:51 and operator so they've got in 20

8:53 countries

8:54 data centers and they're big modern and

8:57 very powerful data centers

8:59 that they use they rent out for

9:01 publication services

9:03 they also have inter interconnection

9:06 services too

9:08 for um for data for customers that don't

9:11 really need to store their data in the

9:13 data center they just want

9:14 powerful connectors to different levels

9:17 of the internet

9:19 and they provide that to equinix is

9:22 really really

9:22 far ahead of its time right now as a

9:26 data center

9:27 builder owner operator and doing a deal

9:30 with dell means

9:31 that people in various countries

9:35 can have their data close by if

9:37 necessary

9:38 in one of the dell or equinix data

9:41 centers and that's important to

9:44 uh you know the new gdpr rules

9:47 yeah and so this is very very

9:50 good news for a lot of companies uh who

9:53 are dell customers

9:55 or who are potential dell customers yeah

9:58 well nobody does things in scale like

9:59 dell does i know

10:00 hp took a little polkadel by saying

10:02 welcome to the managed services game

10:04 um i do think it's well timed though

10:06 when you look at the trends in the

10:07 industry because the

10:08 you know around data growth and things i

10:10 read a stat somewhere that's in 90

10:12 of all the data created has been created

10:14 in the last two years so

10:15 i t departments have kind of a tough

10:18 task if you're trying to do things the

10:19 traditional way

10:20 i can buy for today which means i'm

10:22 going to run a capacity in a month

10:24 or i can buy for two years from now and

10:27 so i'm going to significantly overpay

10:29 today

10:30 right but i'll be able to grow into that

10:31 and who knows i might run into that

10:33 capacity sooner or later

10:35 but what apex does it lets customers buy

10:37 their storage to compute things like

10:38 that

10:39 what they need today and then as they

10:41 grow they can continue to pay for it

10:43 like a service and so i think this whole

10:45 everything is a service is becoming real

10:47 uh you know cisco earlier this year

10:49 announced network as a service right

10:50 we've had

10:51 you know amazon with your compute

10:52 services so it makes sense that dell

10:54 would want to get into the service game

10:55 i think one of the more important

10:57 aspects of it would g

10:59 touchdown on your story was the apex

11:00 console where

11:02 it is a single pane of glass of

11:04 customers can make the entire life cycle

11:05 of all their

11:06 apex offering through through one place

11:08 so um

11:09 that was that was you know this has been

11:11 a long time coming for dell

11:12 michael's talked about you know dell as

11:14 a service for a while so

11:16 it's finally here yeah yeah they've

11:19 needed this

11:19 uh like i said they've been working on

11:21 this for a while it's very complicated

11:23 to do under the

11:24 under the hood yeah but it remains to be

11:26 seen now it's going to get out there

11:28 people are going to use it

11:29 we're going to get reviews of it we'll

11:30 see what happens all right indiana's

11:32 asking the event

11:33 no those are the main those are the main

11:35 things michael's keynote

11:37 alison dew who was one of the executives

11:40 there explained apex

11:42 very well and uh no that was pretty much

11:44 it you can

11:45 read the detail in e-week yeah that's

11:48 true so check that out b-week

11:50 uh next thing i want to talk about is

11:51 arista networks

11:53 uh they announced earnings this quarter

11:55 and like we talked about with juniper

11:57 and extreme last quarter they posted

11:59 good numbers they did issue a cautionary

12:02 statement about the chip shortage though

12:04 and uh that does seem like like uh it

12:07 hasn't been an issue yet but i think

12:09 we have not yet seen the impact of the

12:11 chip storage but i think it's coming

12:12 so uh i thought um as far as this port

12:15 goes though

12:16 aristosaw continued strengthened their

12:18 business they had strong beats across

12:20 the board

12:21 uh their revenue grew 28 eps grew 24

12:24 year-over-year albeit off they had

12:26 pretty easy comps before

12:28 uh i think um the big thing for our

12:31 roots though is everybody knows a risk

12:32 is the company that serves the cloud

12:34 titans

12:35 uh they grew their enterprise business

12:37 quite nicely too and i think

12:39 arista has finally over the hurdle

12:42 of understanding how to sell the

12:44 enterprises and so when you look at a

12:46 lot of the marketing that used to come

12:47 out of arista

12:48 it used to be about big you know b

12:50 buffers and elephant flows and things

12:53 like that

12:54 things that mean a lot to the cloud

12:56 titans but frankly don't mean a lot to

12:58 enterprises

12:59 and so they've invested a lot of money

13:01 into enterprise uh you know they've

13:03 acquired some companies mojo networks

13:05 things like that

13:06 um they are paying last week to manage

13:10 the aristo network through

13:11 um through a cloud portal uh it actually

13:14 you can manage their entire portfolio

13:16 from wi-fi

13:17 switching the data center um and um

13:21 i think arista has done um you know like

13:24 i said a nice job of making the pivot to

13:26 a company

13:27 that's enterprise i want to say

13:29 enterprise first they'll always be

13:30 noticed that they come to the service of

13:31 cloud plans but certainly the enterprise

13:33 is a much bigger part of that

13:34 and i think you know we will start to

13:36 see arista as a major enterprise

13:39 player in the networking world and

13:40 that's certainly good for everybody

13:42 i have a lot of respect for the company

13:44 i know jay shree allowed their ceo very

13:46 well

13:46 um they have been one of the most

13:48 innovative companies uh since they

13:50 launched over

13:51 you know 15 years ago now i think so

13:53 yeah yeah i knew andy

13:54 andy bechtelsheim who was one of the

13:56 founders uh

13:58 and uh andy was one of my favorite

14:00 people

14:02 he was one of the four founders of sun

14:05 brilliant guy and a man who talks so

14:08 fast you have to really

14:10 take fast notes to catch up with him

14:12 because he thinks so fast but he really

14:14 did a fabulous job

14:15 starting the company

14:20 yeah well it was andy's uh influence

14:22 there i think that really put that

14:23 company in the map when

14:24 you know when he does things people

14:26 notice and so i think the fact that he

14:28 managed to hire jay shreely from cisco

14:30 he was one of the founders that really

14:31 put the company on the map and they

14:33 stayed that way

14:34 absolutely um next thing i want to talk

14:36 about is uh

14:37 is juniper and we talked about their

14:39 earnings last week but they they came up

14:40 with kind of an interesting announcement

14:42 everybody talks about sassy today right

14:44 secure access service edge

14:45 which is the coming together of

14:46 networking and security

14:49 um they came they're taking a bit of a

14:51 different approach

14:53 to sassy so instead of rolling out a

14:56 whole bunch of new cloud-based security

14:59 services we're announcing a whole bunch

15:01 of partnerships to fill the apps

15:03 um what jupiter has done is they've

15:05 started the journey for their customers

15:07 getting it to sassy

15:10 with management right so they announced

15:12 this product called the juniper security

15:14 director cloud

15:15 and it's designed to provide customers

15:17 with that

15:18 input single pane of glass which

15:20 everybody has today for managing

15:22 security policies regardless of whether

15:24 the service is running on-prem or in the

15:26 cloud and i think

15:27 when i talk to customers about sassy

15:29 there's a lot of confusion of

15:31 do i need to have everything in the

15:32 cloud do i need to have it on-prem i

15:34 might have a big investment of stuff

15:36 on-prem

15:36 but i might want to move some stuff to

15:38 the cloud and so what juniper's done is

15:40 they've

15:40 thought about this today and i kind of

15:41 like to bring this up and there's lots

15:43 of sassy announcements that we don't

15:44 talk about but i thought this was kind

15:46 of unique

15:47 because they looked at sassy from the

15:49 operational standpoint

15:51 versus the technology and this shift is

15:54 going to be

15:54 take you know this is going to be a long

15:56 shift right we're not moving to sassy

15:58 overnight

15:58 but i do think from a junior perspective

16:02 the ability to have that end-to-end

16:04 visibility

16:06 be able to look at policies across the

16:07 board and be able to manage things

16:09 becomes important

16:10 versus having everything just be you

16:12 know here's more and more security

16:13 services which

16:14 has played enterprises in the past with

16:17 a lot of inefficiencies so

16:18 yeah you know close to them for that

16:20 yeah it's good to see the way companies

16:22 are embracing this

16:23 this trend and it's definitely a trend

16:25 but you're right it's it's just

16:27 in this nascent uh nascent days and

16:30 we'll see how sassy develops going

16:32 forward

16:34 yeah thanks i don't like the term sassy

16:35 but you know it looks like it's your

16:37 state yeah

16:38 yeah right uh next up on the docket

16:42 uh i know this is something you brought

16:43 up was the ibm

16:45 right they're doing something in the

16:46 silicon space right so two nanometer

16:48 silicon yeah can you imagine that i mean

16:51 how much

16:52 come on how much how small can you get i

16:54 mean

16:55 two nanometers is it's like smaller than

16:58 from what i understand

17:00 smaller than a human dna

17:03 molecule you know it's like what

17:06 and this um this blueprint that um

17:10 um ibm announced just today as a matter

17:13 of fact

17:14 will be eagerly looked at by all the

17:18 the chip manufacturers for sure

17:22 and just this i think house how

17:25 small these little these little chips or

17:29 these little um

17:31 processors are you can get 50 billion

17:34 that's with a b transistors on a

17:37 fingernail sized chip

17:39 50 billion uh how in the world that they

17:42 do that i don't know but two nanometers

17:44 there's not much

17:44 else there's not much left before going

17:46 virtual you know

17:48 but um these chips when they start being

17:51 manufactured later this year early next

17:53 year they're going to be

17:54 in everything if they work correctly

17:56 which

17:57 they probably will ibm's got quite a

17:59 history

18:00 of designing chips they don't make chips

18:03 of course but they design them and they

18:05 keep the

18:06 they license them and license out the

18:07 blueprints

18:09 they were they were among the first to

18:11 implement the seven nanometer and the

18:13 five

18:14 nanometer process uh they've also

18:17 been um leaders uh by designing single

18:20 cell dram

18:22 and a lot of other uh you know planning

18:25 so they plan and design things pretty

18:28 darn well

18:28 okay so guys where will we see these

18:30 being used yeah

18:32 well we won't see them on you know being

18:35 built or or manufactured until later

18:37 this year probably

18:39 around christmas and then after that

18:40 early next year but

18:42 these things will probably follow just

18:44 like the five nanometers and the seven

18:45 nanometer ones

18:47 they'll go into everything they'll go

18:48 into your laptop your desktop your phone

18:51 cars satellites and wherever they're

18:53 needed as long as they work

18:55 they will be powerful they'll be low

18:57 power

18:58 and uh they should be uh at least

19:01 according to the blueprints they should

19:02 be successful we'll see

19:05 yeah and from what i understand uh it's

19:07 been well documented that moore's law is

19:08 running out of steam

19:10 so obviously being able to get down to

19:12 two millimeters is important and it was

19:13 the

19:14 arrival of something called extreme

19:16 ultraviolet technology

19:18 that allows us to get this kind of

19:20 density and they're

19:21 from what i said they're doing it by uh

19:24 overlapping

19:25 um waves of light basically corrected

19:30 they've they've meaning intel and micron

19:33 for one example

19:34 um about six years seven years ago came

19:36 out with a thing called

19:38 3d cross point x cross point

19:41 in which you were trying to go

19:43 vertically with uh

19:45 with the chips to try to get more power

19:47 into them but that didn't really work

19:49 very well

19:49 and we're not seeing the results there

19:51 but they keep going smaller with these

19:53 um you know with these um processors and

19:57 uh

19:57 smaller seems to be okay so far we'll

19:59 see yeah

20:00 pretty soon uh you're right we'll just

20:02 have virtual processors there'll be

20:04 nothing in there so

20:05 um all right anyways this brings us to

20:07 the end of our show i do want to

20:09 touch on one more point um and it's a

20:11 sad one um

20:13 i found out last weekend that uh one of

20:15 my good friends lee doyle who most

20:17 people would know

20:18 as the president and founder of doyle

20:20 research uh formerly of idc he was one

20:22 of those

20:23 svps there uh passed away he uh from

20:26 what i understand he was kayaking and

20:28 he had a heart attack which is shocking

20:29 to me because

20:31 the guy was an extreme sports person he

20:33 was in better shape than almost anybody

20:34 i knew

20:35 so um you know but uh lee um

20:39 not a lot of people know this i actually

20:40 leave tried to hire me one time when i

20:42 was a yankee group but

20:43 i couldn't work on my non-compete issue

20:44 there so i'll end up staying at yankee

20:46 group but i always likely he was

20:48 genuinely

20:49 a very nice person and i think uh

20:52 you know chris you've worked with a lot

20:54 of analysts in the space and

20:56 some are nice people some are nice

20:57 people but but lee was just a genuinely

21:00 nice guy he always took time to say

21:01 hello

21:02 um you know he he certainly enjoyed

21:04 living life as well and so

21:06 um you know lee um uh goodbye uh

21:09 you'll be uh you're gone but you won't

21:12 be uh forgotten you there's a whole

21:14 bunch of analysts in this industry

21:16 that work for lee um you know and other

21:18 product people that

21:19 uh you know so in a lot of ways he lives

21:21 on so

21:22 yeah yeah you know we all work with a

21:24 lot of different people but i'll tell

21:26 you

21:26 it's so much more satisfying worthwhile

21:29 and fun to work with people who are

21:31 good people who are good to you and kind

21:35 and thoughtful and i'm sure he sounds

21:37 like he was one of those

21:39 yeah he was and so uh i'm going to wrap

21:41 up this episode of z

21:42 cast uh with a moment of silence for lee

21:45 so

21:45 his picture come up and then we'll fade

21:47 away so anyways chris thanks for joining

21:49 me i'll see you next week

21:50 uh but for now uh let's just have a

21:56 moment

22:24 you

Show more