Zeus Kerravala, host of ZKast and Principal Analyst, ZK Research

Are data centers becoming less relevant? ZKast with Mike Bushong Juniper of Juniper Networks

Data Center
Zeus Kerravala Headshot
Blue background with ZKast logo and headshots of the two people in the video: host Zues Kerravala and Juniper’s Michael Bushong.

The data center is dead. Long live the data center. 

Are data centers becoming less relevant as more applications move to the cloud? Juniper’s Michael Bushong says no and explains why in this must-watch ZKast with Zeus Kerravala. 

Show more

You’ll learn

  • The changing role of the data center and what it means in terms of edge and cloud

  • Why data centers are having a bit of a renaissance right now, according to Michael  

  • Why it’s harder for larger enterprises to move everything to public cloud 

Who is this for?

Network Professionals Business Leaders

Host

Zeus Kerravala Headshot
Zeus Kerravala
host of ZKast

Guest speakers

Mike Bushong Headshot
Michael Bushong
VP, Cloud-Ready Data Center, Juniper Networks 
Transcript

0:00 [Music]

0:05 welcome to zcast everybody i'm zscaravel

0:08 from zk research as always i'm your host

0:10 i'm joined today by

0:12 mike bushong vp of cloud ready data

0:14 center at juniper networks mike why

0:16 don't you say hi to everybody

0:18 hey thanks for having me today and hello

0:20 everyone out there

0:21 yeah so we're gonna be talking uh data

0:23 center which uh you know it's a pretty

0:25 exciting topic there's always lots of

0:27 stuff going on in that area before we

0:29 get started though i do want to give a

0:30 shout out to e-week my media partner all

0:33 seacasts are done in conjunction with

0:34 the ewiki speaks program so thanks to

0:37 e-week uh mike now

0:39 you work and live and eat and everything

0:41 in data centers um what's going on with

0:44 data centers right we've had this

0:46 massive

0:47 number of people work from home

0:49 we've moved more and more applications

0:50 to the cloud and so i think there's some

0:52 conventional wisdom out there that data

0:55 centers are becoming less relevant but

0:56 uh you know tell us why that's not the

0:59 case

1:00 yeah i think the the whole data center

1:02 thing um when cloud came in right the

1:04 whole idea was the cloud is going to

1:06 wipe through and take out all of the

1:07 data centers that everything essentially

1:09 moves to amazon

1:11 microsoft google oracle whoever

1:13 i just that hasn't been true right i

1:15 think what most people are looking at is

1:17 kind of these hybrid environments

1:19 certainly workloads are moving to the

1:20 cloud i don't want to say that i'm like

1:22 a one of the people who says that cloud

1:24 isn't happening it's absolutely

1:26 happening

1:27 but i think what's what's really going

1:29 on is there's a bit of a bifurcation in

1:30 the market um

1:32 for companies that are maybe at the

1:34 lower end they could they might look at

1:35 cloud first or cloud only because their

1:37 needs are you know fairly

1:39 constrained right they've got a kind of

1:41 a well understood set of applications

1:43 for everybody else they've got kind of a

1:45 bunch of different applications and the

1:46 whole idea that merely lifting and

1:48 shifting an application from on-prem

1:50 into the cloud was going to yield some

1:52 huge financial impact that hasn't really

1:55 happened and so it's left people kind of

1:57 in this environment where they've got

1:58 you know the you know what they've got

2:00 on prem they've got you know new

2:01 emerging you know let's say sas

2:03 workloads and they're leveraging cloud

2:05 and what this leads to is not just you

2:07 know sort of these hybrid environments

2:08 but but hybrid and multi environments

2:10 right on-prem public public the net of

2:13 all of that is that you know data center

2:15 all of a sudden is no longer about the

2:17 four walls that you're kind of managing

2:18 and the equipment that you have in it

2:20 it's kind of this operational domain

2:22 this administrative domain that extends

2:24 out across different different you know

2:26 areas in the network and then with all

2:27 of that

2:28 that makes data center hot again because

2:30 it's all about data center operations i

2:32 think we're actually going through a bit

2:33 of a data center renaissance frankly and

2:36 then you mentioned the work from home

2:37 thing right you get more people

2:39 consuming more applications trying to do

2:41 more things in a distributed way it's

2:44 like that's actually built up a bunch of

2:46 demand for the services that are being

2:48 offered at a data center so it's not

2:50 just that operations and innovation is

2:52 alive it's that kind of the current

2:54 environment that we find ourselves in

2:55 it's really stimulating growth in this

2:57 overall space then we see that when you

2:59 start looking at you know kind of how

3:00 companies are doing who are in this this

3:02 data center proper area

3:04 i like what you framed it up because

3:06 data center maybe is now become

3:09 a term to describe operations versus a

3:12 physical place uh but i do think that

3:14 you know that uh you know i think we

3:16 analysts and you know i write for a lot

3:18 of public media tend to over swing the

3:21 pendulum sometimes we say everything's

3:23 moving to the cloud or everything's

3:24 moving mobile or whatever and that's

3:26 just not true um i do i will say though

3:29 that every business i talk to wants a

3:31 cloud model that doesn't necessarily

3:34 mean public cloud in fact my research

3:36 shows that 95 of companies will adopt a

3:40 hybrid cloud there are just certain

3:41 scenarios where things will run and by

3:44 the way the 95 numbers enterprises so i

3:46 do think you're right small businesses

3:47 can go all cloud but when you talk about

3:50 larger enterprise they have specific

3:51 workflows data sovereignty issues they

3:53 got regulatory issues compliance issues

3:56 and you just can't move everything to

3:58 uh the

3:59 public cloud in fact somebody asked me

4:00 the other day do i see a day where

4:03 everything's in public cloud and my

4:05 answer was

4:06 maybe but i'll long be retired so i

4:08 don't care

4:09 when that happens now the other big

4:11 disruptor in data centers has been this

4:14 thing that we call edge and this has

4:16 given rise to what i call

4:18 uh and gardeners in terms of distributed

4:21 cloud which describes an operating model

4:23 to your point

4:25 where you have one

4:27 logical cloud environment that spans

4:29 public clouds private clouds and edge

4:31 locations and that's fundamentally

4:33 different because historically what you

4:34 had with data centers well they were

4:36 centralized centers of data

4:39 right but now you've got these

4:40 distributed environments so can you you

4:42 talk a little bit about edge and how

4:44 that's really evolved the role of the

4:45 network and data centers

4:47 um yeah so if we take cloud just

4:49 generally i mean cloud is is you know i

4:51 think it's really an operational

4:52 construct um it's how do you how do you

4:55 manage things the whole idea of moving

4:56 to different consumption models and

4:59 and you know being able to spin up

5:00 applications when and where you need we

5:02 look at you know the kind of classic

5:04 cloud it was the idea that we would

5:05 bring users and data to the application

5:08 right things were hosted centrally and

5:09 then you know you could sort of reroute

5:11 everything into these central locations

5:13 what we see with distributed edge is the

5:15 kind of changing that a little bit let's

5:16 take the applications let's take the

5:18 data and push it closer to the users

5:20 in some cases it could be because

5:22 there's you know performance

5:23 requirements or latency requirements it

5:25 could be

5:26 um you know things like 5g are actually

5:28 changing the whole expectation of user

5:30 experience and and what users are

5:32 demanding and so it's no longer

5:33 sufficient to just route everything

5:35 through these national data centers what

5:37 you've got to do is essentially push the

5:38 data centers out closer to the users

5:41 now this is actually not that different

5:43 and i'll say spiritually right

5:44 architecture it's very different but

5:46 spiritually it's similar to this whole

5:47 idea of scale out right instead of

5:49 having you know these big massive things

5:51 what i want to do is create smaller

5:53 components and pull them and sort of

5:54 distribute the load across a larger

5:56 number of elements

5:58 when we do that right we trade off the

6:01 performance piece um

6:03 we get performance advantages but what

6:05 we pick up the cost of that is

6:06 essentially you know distributed

6:08 operations it's all the administrative

6:10 things that you have to do to manage

6:11 these devices well it's true in data

6:13 center as well if i move away from a

6:15 large national data center and i replace

6:17 that with dozens

6:19 you know maybe hundreds of

6:21 of you know distributed data centers and

6:23 this distributed edge what i pick up is

6:25 an operational burden and so what we see

6:26 with with the whole move to distributed

6:28 edge is it's a it's a shift and it's

6:30 emphasizing once again the operational

6:33 tenants of cloud which brings us back to

6:35 kind of the you know the opening

6:37 comments around cloud it's how do i get

6:39 cloud-like operations so i can reliably

6:41 and repeatably deploy applications

6:44 to preserve a consistent user experience

6:47 when my applications and the domains

6:49 over which i have to manage them are

6:51 distributed in all kinds of different

6:53 physical locations

6:54 um with a you know diversity of

6:56 connectivity a diversity of applications

6:58 like that's really the game in this

7:00 whole distributed edge space yeah in

7:02 fact i would argue when you talk about

7:04 operations a lot of businesses

7:06 haven't really moved to true cloud

7:09 operations i think when you think about

7:11 if i pick up a legacy workload and i do

7:13 a lift and shift and public cloud to a

7:14 public cloud i maybe change the location

7:17 of that but i'm not really changing the

7:19 way i operate right so i don't get the

7:21 benefit of the scale out and things like

7:23 that and so this

7:24 you know now what i actually think is

7:26 we're actually moving to an era where we

7:29 do have cloud operations and that's

7:30 giving rise to true multi-cloud and i

7:32 use the word true multi-cloud because

7:34 historically when people did multi-cloud

7:36 they were using multiple centralized

7:38 clouds but to me that's not the same as

7:40 multi-cloud where i could have one

7:42 operational construct across

7:44 all my clouds so uh you know i do think

7:47 the environment does become

7:50 um

7:51 more you know a little more you know

7:53 complicated here and so that certainly

7:54 changed the role um you know of

7:56 operations and security and things now

7:58 um you recently made another a number of

8:01 announcements right uh

8:03 you know the uh through uh uh the

8:05 abstract position that that juniper made

8:07 can you can you just walk us through

8:09 those

8:10 uh yeah so i mean just as a brief

8:12 reminder of what abstra does right so

8:14 this whole idea of abstract is intent

8:16 based networking um it's the idea that

8:18 rather than working configuration

8:19 statement by configuration statement you

8:21 ought to be able to declare

8:23 top down here's what i want my my data

8:25 center to do

8:27 so we did we took that intent model and

8:28 we've extended it actually to the edge

8:30 so we've said that you know there are

8:32 architectures that are different than

8:35 these centralized data centers right

8:37 typically called collapsed fabrics where

8:38 you you don't necessarily need a whole

8:40 bunch of devices use a couple of access

8:42 switches maybe some some tours

8:44 um and what we're doing then is

8:46 essentially extending the benefits of

8:47 intent-based networking to those types

8:49 of of deployments this is big right as

8:52 we start thinking about you know smaller

8:53 data centers uh use cases like iot

8:57 we start looking at uh things like telco

8:59 cloud where you've got you know let's

9:01 say carriers that are you know

9:02 distributing their data centers out in

9:04 support of their 5g services

9:06 there's a whole different kind of

9:08 collection of things that we can cover

9:10 within that that basic space um that's

9:13 that's a big part of this overall

9:14 announcement right extending the

9:15 goodness of abstract to new deployments

9:18 um beyond that we did some stuff on the

9:20 security side which we can talk about in

9:21 a bit um and then

9:24 of course you know when you pick up

9:25 something like intent based networking

9:26 it's really is a different operating

9:28 model which raises a question especially

9:30 like in your enterprise clients right it

9:31 raises a basic question you know there's

9:33 this thing that i want that is different

9:35 than what i have

9:36 how do i get there

9:38 and so we put together some migration

9:39 services that are really aimed at how do

9:41 we transition from environments as we

9:43 know it today to environments as as we

9:45 want them tomorrow

9:47 yeah i wouldn't drill down the security

9:49 side because juniper obviously has a

9:50 very big

9:51 uh security business as well you know

9:53 when you when you think of a traditional

9:55 data center it was a closed environment

9:58 you could control a lot of things uh

10:00 just by locking down

10:02 the walls right so now that we're moving

10:04 more and more things to the edge uh

10:06 we're using public clouds we're kind of

10:08 mixing public and private um

10:11 that that really makes curing a lot more

10:13 complicated so can you you talk about

10:15 those challenges and then tell me what

10:17 you know how juniper's addressing those

10:19 sure i mean you just spelled it out if

10:21 i've got

10:23 different types of users accessing

10:25 different types of applications all run

10:27 in different types of data centers that

10:30 are all supported by different types of

10:31 vendor equipment and different types of

10:33 vendor software

10:35 like what's the problem

10:36 um i mean that like like that's that

10:38 should be easy

10:40 it should be it sounds amazing right

10:41 like

10:42 what that sounds like to me by the way

10:43 is job security so for all of you out

10:45 there like that's you know good good

10:47 stuff

10:48 um

10:49 i think the real challenge is you know

10:51 and this is when you talk about true

10:52 multi-cloud i mean you mentioned it it's

10:54 the idea that i want uniform operations

10:56 and i want diverse underlying you know i

10:59 guess infrastructure

11:01 what apps just trying to do is provide

11:03 unified operations i want to do things

11:05 in a common way regardless of

11:08 the underlying infrastructure regardless

11:10 of the vendor regardless of the the

11:12 particular domain type regardless of the

11:14 underlying you know users and

11:15 applications whatever let me provide

11:17 kind of a consistent way of applying

11:19 policy across this diverse environment

11:21 what we're doing in this particular

11:22 release is we're taking this idea of

11:25 group-based policy the idea that we have

11:27 policy and control that's applied at

11:29 like a tenant or an application level

11:31 and then we can and essentially what

11:32 apps does is it abstracts that policy

11:34 from the underlying devices

11:36 then we go and apply that policy across

11:38 whichever devices are are required in

11:40 order to support that that overall

11:42 policy structure and then

11:44 we'll validate that the policy that's

11:46 deployed is essentially um working as

11:49 intended and the way we do that right so

11:52 so underpinning this idea of intent this

11:54 this declarative model this way of

11:56 pushing let's say configuration and

11:58 state information into devices i'm

12:00 underpinning that we actually create a

12:02 model we say here's the the network as

12:05 it's intended and then we deploy a bunch

12:07 of sensors and we say here is the

12:09 network as deployed

12:11 and when the as intended and the

12:12 deployed match we give you a big green

12:14 light everything is good

12:16 when as deployed and um and as intended

12:20 uh do not match then we can flag that

12:22 there's a problem so let me give you

12:23 kind of an easy example

12:25 you pay you uh you create policy for a

12:27 particular application but of course

12:29 multiple applications run across these

12:32 different you know

12:33 on the uh the switches the data center

12:34 fabric what if somebody else makes a

12:37 different policy instruction that

12:40 overlaps with the policy for for

12:42 application a and application b what we

12:44 want to do is flag when there's

12:46 overlapping policy we want to be able to

12:47 tell you when something is different

12:49 than as intended so that when you get in

12:51 this complex environment of you know

12:53 many to many for everything we're trying

12:55 to do

12:56 let us tell you if there's if there's

12:58 conflicts so you can resolve that

13:00 conflict ahead of time the worst time to

13:02 to possibly find out that your policies

13:05 are not working as intended

13:07 is in the middle of your ransomware

13:08 attack

13:09 right so segmentation becomes a a key

13:13 mitigation you know activity when you

13:15 think about some of the security stuff

13:16 going on you can't afford to find out

13:18 that it's not going to work at the point

13:20 of at the point of attack at the point

13:22 that something's gone wrong what

13:23 aperture's doing is not just

13:24 provisioning it but telling you up front

13:26 you know is your policy assured is it

13:28 working the way you expect it to work

13:31 uh thanks for that answer mike uh i know

13:33 one of the big value propositions of

13:36 appstra

13:37 and there are other intent-based

13:38 solutions but i believe appstore is the

13:40 only real multi-vendor one so can you

13:43 can you talk a little bit about why and

13:45 how that's grown in importance obviously

13:47 you know everybody wants to be able to

13:48 choose the vendor they use but

13:50 i think historically haven't been able

13:52 to so what have you seen there from your

13:53 customers and how they've been

13:55 leveraging that

13:57 sure um i mean so yes the idea behind

14:00 intent based is that if we can work from

14:02 a declarative model over the top then

14:03 we're abstracted naturally from the

14:05 underlying devices this means that we

14:07 are in a very good architectural

14:08 position to support multi-vendor

14:11 why does that matter um look everybody

14:13 is these days talking about supply chain

14:16 if you want to um

14:18 if you want to be able to order devices

14:20 from vendor a or vendor b or vendor c

14:22 but your operations are sort of fixed

14:24 then you're in a position that you can't

14:26 you actually can't do that what app

14:27 store allows us to do is to say you know

14:29 here's my data center the way it's

14:30 constructed i don't care about the

14:32 underlying devices my teams are trained

14:34 my services are deployed applications

14:36 are deployed um

14:38 regardless of what the underlying

14:39 vendors are then depending on what the

14:42 lead times are then you can go and take

14:43 advantage of you know vendor a vendor b

14:45 vendor c

14:46 now look supply chain won't always be a

14:48 constraint right we we think that you

14:50 know that things will improve at some

14:51 point

14:52 but at that point then the question is

14:54 do you want your vendors to compete for

14:56 your business if you want economic

14:58 leverage for instance then keeping your

14:59 vendors competing for for incremental

15:01 capacity is a is a huge thing that that

15:04 gives you um flexibility right it could

15:06 be that they're competing based on

15:08 feature functionality it could be based

15:10 on you know price and performance but

15:12 this gives you the flexibility to make

15:13 the decisions that you need to make

15:15 um you know so you can avoid these you

15:17 know seven nine ten year type

15:19 engagements where you say like i'm

15:21 committed

15:23 longer than i'm going to be in the role

15:24 i'm committed to this particular vendor

15:26 what we're essentially doing is

15:27 unlocking that and we've seen huge

15:30 traction here i mean we have um we've

15:32 got folks who come and they say look you

15:34 know appreciate that juniper has

15:35 hardware however i've got cisco or

15:38 arista or dell or sonic or you know or

15:42 cumulus or juniper whatever i've got

15:44 different suppliers you know can you

15:46 solve my operational challenges

15:48 and we've got accounts today where it's

15:50 it's literally it's it's you know it's

15:52 pure software over the top

15:54 breathing additional life into an

15:56 existing investment which allows them to

15:57 get more out of what they've already

15:59 spent and then gives them a plausible

16:01 path to go and extract additional value

16:02 over time

16:04 yeah it's intended in the whole shift of

16:06 software that took place in the network

16:07 industry years ago was supposed to allow

16:09 better network uh vendor

16:11 interoperability and it never really led

16:13 to that in fact i've had people describe

16:15 uh their vendor lock-in situation as

16:16 being a little like hotel california

16:18 where you can check out but you can't

16:20 ever leave and uh so you know unless you

16:23 wait the best time to do that there

16:25 is always with cio turnover right so

16:28 that can be long uh cycles now um i i

16:31 did want to ask you about

16:32 the acceptance that you're seeing with

16:34 intent-based networking and autonomous

16:36 operations i know when apps are first

16:39 launched when i when i talked to it

16:41 people about this concept of autonomous

16:42 operations to use the technical term it

16:44 gave them the heebie-jeebies i mean a

16:46 lot of them were very concerned about it

16:48 and uh so what do you what do you see

16:50 now and i'm assuming you know work from

16:52 home has played you know a role in in

16:55 getting to look at your product but are

16:56 you seeing more acceptance of it and

16:58 what are some of those low-hanging fruit

17:00 use cases where if people were to

17:01 adopted they could take advantage of it

17:03 faster

17:05 yeah i think people in general are

17:06 getting more comfortable with automation

17:08 i still think it's a long journey

17:10 you know the processes that surround

17:11 automation are sometimes immature

17:13 especially in some of the enterprise

17:14 type accounts

17:15 so i think there's there's still work to

17:17 go and and move forward

17:19 but in terms of like basic use cases i

17:20 think you start looking at how quickly

17:22 can i stand up you know additional

17:23 capacity how do i expand how do i add

17:26 you know new racks how do i add new

17:27 servers how do i add new pods depending

17:29 on the size of the data center you start

17:32 looking at this whole idea of mean time

17:33 to innocence we have a

17:35 good customer in the retail space where

17:37 they have an online shopping platform

17:39 and at the end of each day they've got

17:41 you know there's items that sit in the

17:44 um in their in their shopping carts that

17:45 don't get closed and of course the the

17:48 uh the the teams come back and say you

17:49 know we didn't get we didn't convert

17:51 these to sales there's a network problem

17:52 these things timed out you know what's

17:54 the mean time to innocence they spend

17:56 their time literally every day

17:58 you know having to prove that there

17:59 wasn't some network issue that caused

18:00 these purchases not to go through what

18:02 we can do on the abstract side is by by

18:04 demonstrating that the network is

18:05 working as intended and and that there's

18:07 no issues it's like that mean time to

18:09 innocence is merely

18:10 at that point it's like a dashboard view

18:12 you know here things are working as

18:13 intended that's a that takes an

18:15 operational practice that would have

18:16 been manual triggered by people

18:18 forced to forcing other people to go in

18:20 run a bunch of commands and prove that

18:22 things are working as you want them to

18:24 now that becomes just part of the system

18:26 you know it's it's this idea that that

18:28 we can

18:29 provide information provide insight um

18:32 like that that's how you get to some of

18:34 these autonomous operations it's not

18:35 about removing keystrokes and making it

18:38 like oh i can type in some command

18:39 faster it's about you know helping you

18:41 make decisions much faster in this case

18:43 you know the decision is you know do i

18:45 need to go and troubleshoot the network

18:47 or are things working again the way

18:48 they're supposed to be working so maybe

18:50 you should go and look at other things

18:51 that might be causing um a problem on

18:53 the retail side like that's a the amount

18:56 of time that that that saves it's not

18:58 just the the time it takes to execute

19:00 commands but it's the time it takes for

19:02 for people to coordinate across

19:03 functions that's how you drive a lot of

19:05 value you know not just into the it or

19:07 the networking team but into the

19:09 enterprise at large

19:10 yeah i've likened the transition to

19:12 autonomous networking a little bit like

19:14 the transition to autonomous vehicles

19:16 right nobody

19:18 except maybe elon musk would jump into a

19:20 car with no steering wheel no controls

19:22 and no driver right but we're all

19:24 willing to drive a car now and actually

19:26 like features like parallel park assists

19:28 and lane change alerts and some of those

19:30 things and so you know baby steps will

19:32 get us there and one day down the road

19:34 we'll have fully autonomous operations

19:36 but i do think there is some trust that

19:38 needs to be built up here so a last

19:39 question for you mike if i if i look at

19:41 juniper's kind of bigger

19:44 messaging right

19:45 juniper talks a lot about experience

19:47 first networking and uh so can you tell

19:50 us what that is and then how does

19:52 abstract fit into that

19:55 yeah i mean the whole idea behind

19:56 experience first is this it's the notion

19:58 that the things we optimize for are

20:00 changing where it used to be all about

20:02 you know

20:03 price and performance it was about you

20:05 know transport moving packets like

20:07 that's table stakes right when when you

20:09 can move the packets the question is

20:11 what do you do from there it's no longer

20:12 about is your network up right and we

20:14 user experience is the new uptime it's

20:17 not

20:17 it's just not the case that having you

20:19 know

20:20 your high availability is enough to

20:22 declare success um you've got to look

20:24 and say well you know are things working

20:25 the way that you want them to work the

20:27 applications function in the data center

20:29 adequately to support the business

20:32 and if that's the case then you have to

20:33 do more than you know merely provision

20:35 things so that they so that connectivity

20:37 is in place you've got to be able to

20:40 um assure that that things are working

20:42 continuously the way they're supposed to

20:44 you've got to make sure that the

20:45 applications have um you know not just

20:47 the the connectivity but they've got you

20:49 know all the things that the drive

20:50 overall experience um so

20:52 for instance what does latency look like

20:54 within the application um you know are

20:56 you seeing intermittent drops are you

20:58 seeing

20:59 um you know congestion that's leading to

21:02 to changes in application side behavior

21:04 um if you look northbound into the

21:06 application space you know are we seeing

21:08 things that are happening you know at

21:09 the application side or maybe within

21:10 some of the the vmware you know suite of

21:12 tools and is that leading to the

21:14 decisions that need to be made or

21:16 information that needs to be sourced

21:17 from the underlying network this is like

21:19 it's it's so much broader than just

21:21 merely connecting things

21:22 um the whole role of appstra is

21:24 essentially saying look first let's

21:26 let's make it as simple as possible to

21:28 get the network up and running it's

21:30 table stakes let's do it well but let's

21:32 do it quickly so you don't have to spend

21:34 time on that

21:35 second you know the whole idea of

21:36 reliability is not that you know hey

21:38 i've pushed some configuration out and

21:40 it should be working it's like can i

21:42 guarantee can i demonstrate that it's

21:44 working

21:45 and that extending those workflows

21:47 beyond merely pushing the configuration

21:48 but to looking at sort of the assurance

21:50 and reliability side that's a big push

21:52 towards um as you start thinking about

21:55 you know what are the types of things

21:56 that impact experience we talked about

21:58 the policy overlap okay so you've you've

22:00 set your policy does that mean you're

22:02 good

22:03 well maybe but if somebody else has set

22:05 conflicting policy like isn't the

22:07 outcome that you want that you've got to

22:08 secure um that you have a secure posture

22:11 for a particular set of users whether

22:12 they're applications or tenants or

22:14 whoever it's more than merely pushing

22:16 configuration out it's got to be this

22:18 closed loop validation that's what apps

22:20 are trying to do and if we can do that

22:22 in an environment that's multivenger if

22:24 we can do an environment that's

22:26 multi-domain if we can do that in an

22:27 environment that's multi-technology

22:29 multi-topology like everything becomes

22:31 multi over time if abstract can be that

22:34 unified operations platform

22:36 over the top of all of those multis

22:39 like that's what we're trying to drive

22:40 here at juniper

22:42 all right well thanks for that mike and

22:44 uh you know after leading you to a

22:46 multi-everything world i guess a

22:48 multi-multi-world so uh you know with

22:50 that we're gonna wrap up i think that

22:51 was a great overview of your

22:52 announcements and you know clearly the

22:54 data center

22:55 has never been more important right

22:57 everything is moving to some kind of

22:59 data center be it you know a centralized

23:01 one public cloud or in an edge so uh

23:03 again uh thanks mike luxon from juniper

23:05 network for joining me i'm zeus caraval

23:07 from zcast signing off don't forget to

23:09 click to subscribe and i'll see you next

23:11 time

23:13 [Music]

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