SD-WAN to the Future

00:01 [Music]

00:27 [Music]

00:36 doc you won't believe this but in 2028

00:39 there were no more tunnels used in

00:40 networking how in the world did they get

00:42 the packets to go where they wanted them

00:44 to go well see doc starting in 2022

00:47 companies and governments were so

00:49 frustrated that none of their

00:50 orchestrated tunnel solutions could talk

00:52 to each other we went from having a

00:54 truly useful internet to a mess of

00:56 proprietary overlays

00:58 the standards process was effective the

01:00 ietf realized that the only remaining

01:02 purpose of a tunnel was to get a packet

01:04 to go where it wouldn't go otherwise by

01:07 instead identifying the destination as

01:09 of a packet as a word and not as an

01:12 address that gets rewritten or reused

01:14 they solved all of their problems

01:17 how did this impact the world well for

01:19 the first time in decades things got

01:20 simpler

01:22 using words to describe tenants and

01:23 services became a powerful way to

01:25 express network intent

01:27 once accurately expressed routers were

01:29 able to deliver on experiences like

01:31 never before so i would say experience

01:34 based networking really took hold here

01:36 are some examples file downloads went

01:38 faster bandwidth requirements at data

01:41 centers dropped by 30 percent saving

01:43 lots of money on circuits and head-end

01:45 equipment and due to an infusion of ai

01:47 the cost of network operations were

01:49 reduced substantially what happened to

01:52 sd-wan

01:53 well multi-path routing remains to this

01:55 day honestly multi-path routing is

01:58 something routers should have been

01:59 capable of from the onset of the

02:00 internet the missing capabilities

02:03 required to direct a path for a session

02:05 or service a tunnel was the only

02:08 approach prior to the development of

02:09 secure vector routing by juniper

02:11 networks now every router in the world

02:13 supports multi-path routing and the

02:15 sd-wan use case is now just the routing

02:18 use case i want to buy some stock and

02:20 hold it to 2028 what are the companies

02:22 that transform networking away from

02:24 overlays and underlays i can't give you

02:27 any investment advice but juniper

02:28 networks appears to once again be the

02:30 company that transformed the industry

02:32 they did it at the dawn of the internet

02:34 with the development of asics for

02:36 forwarding and they did it again 30

02:38 years later with the development of

02:39 secure vector routing

02:44 great scott i've never heard of ipv7

02:47 ipv6 was codified in the 90s and was

02:50 still not fully implemented after 30

02:52 years what is ipv7 well doc sometimes

02:56 things are held back because of a

02:57 specific reason

02:59 network address is so widely used we're

03:01 preventing change running two internets

03:03 the ipv4 and the ipv6 was the plan for

03:06 30 years and since both worked it was

03:08 believed to be only a matter of time but

03:10 the transition never completed with

03:12 juniper leading the way towards using an

03:14 addressing system based on words that

03:16 operated over top of the existing

03:18 hodgepodge of networks the addressing

03:21 issue went away ipv7 was born as a

03:24 simple way to subscribe for services by

03:26 name

03:26 dns was mothballed and applications were

03:29 simply requested by name routers had

03:32 routing tables that could turn names

03:33 into locations unexpectedly the world

03:36 shifted to a sub-pub model for

03:38 requesting access to services many of

03:41 the security problems that existed went

03:44 away

03:45 how does this work i can't believe it

03:48 well it uses metadata cookies these are

03:50 inserted into the payload portion of

03:52 packets and used to communicate network

03:54 intent to upstream routers the cool

03:56 thing doc is that this information makes

03:58 it through metal boxes carry grade gnats

04:01 load balancers firewalls and that can

04:03 only be read by the intended next hop

04:05 router so communicating network intent

04:08 via cookies change networking

04:10 but all the application guys use cookies

04:12 today

04:13 this doesn't seem so far-fetched marty i

04:16 wonder why it took so long

04:18 sometimes the future is obvious when you

04:20 look back on it

04:27 well after jeff bezos and elon musk left

04:30 for other solar systems the hyperscale

04:32 big tech company emerged into an even

04:34 larger behemoth

04:36 every single network server in the world

04:38 is now run in a micro google zone data

04:40 center

04:41 how did this change networking well the

04:44 shape of the network has always been

04:45 changing but in their 20s the changing

04:48 shape accelerated the hyperscalers of

04:50 that day developed large worldwide

04:52 networking footprints to connect clients

04:54 anywhere to servers in their data

04:56 centers the concepts of wan and sd-wan

04:58 were challenged what was needed were

05:00 easy to use software capabilities that

05:02 could operate inside the hyperscaler

05:04 servers to bring back network elegance

05:07 and control to enterprises so in the

05:09 future

05:10 corporations will still control their

05:12 own networks yeah i mean the digital

05:15 backbones of companies have become the

05:17 most important infrastructure they own

05:19 they need to control their own networks

05:21 for security and competitive advantage

05:23 they now use ai and ml to assist in

05:26 operating everything

05:27 but but why did the democrats and the

05:29 republicans go away well they didn't

05:31 really go away the prevalence of hackers

05:33 and political operatives and even fake

05:35 news went completely away when networks

05:38 had good audit trails without

05:39 misinformation people started to realize

05:42 we all share the same goals we still

05:44 have political parties but secure access

05:46 to reliable information has changed the

05:48 debate

05:52 doc probably the biggest surprise is

05:54 that the giant security problems we had

05:56 in the early part of the 2020s decade

05:59 has gone away but but marty

06:01 how could this happen

06:03 with the advent of router to router

06:05 authentication and identify identifying

06:08 every session in detail with an audit

06:10 trail defined by an end-to-end

06:12 identifier scams were rapidly terminated

06:15 but probably more important was creating

06:17 smaller network communication segments

06:19 that allowed communications only for

06:21 specific clients and services for a

06:23 single purpose

06:24 they call this hyper segmentation it's

06:26 like taking the internet and breaking it

06:28 into millions of smaller networks each

06:30 with a small subset of users and servers

06:33 wow so what happened to anywhere to

06:36 anywhere anonymous anybody can send

06:38 anything to anybody internet well

06:41 frankly society we just couldn't

06:42 continue to operate that way governments

06:45 were held hostage along with

06:46 infrastructure companies by attackers we

06:48 also couldn't stop using the network we

06:50 were really at a breaking point did did

06:52 sassy help

06:53 well sassy was the beginning of a set of

06:55 revolutions in security the first

06:57 revolution came when basically no one

06:59 could trust anyone also called zero

07:01 trust this paved the way to large

07:04 cloud-based security products they had

07:06 to be in the cloud due to the processing

07:08 requirements large databases of

07:09 real-time information and the

07:11 efficiencies of scale

07:14 so

07:14 it was like the great firewall of china

07:17 no not really

07:18 security became much more service

07:20 specific some types of services require

07:22 very specific security in fact

07:24 separating all of the services into

07:26 separate networks helped prevent losses

07:28 when a breach occurs

07:30 what was needed from the network is very

07:32 simple specific capabilities to loop in

07:35 the closest and best security for a

07:37 specific application or service

07:39 how did they stop attackers from always

07:42 breaking in i mean virtually every

07:43 attack for decades was tied to tricking

07:45 someone into executing code on a trusted

07:47 machine by not trusting any machine we

07:50 made a one large step forward

07:52 once access was obtained exfiltration or

07:54 attacks can be mounted to get the

07:56 executed code onto a machine urls are

07:59 often used or attachments to emails all

08:01 that was required was to trick a human

08:03 that's trusted into clicking on

08:04 something the genius of ai and ml came

08:07 to the forefront of 14 attackers and

08:09 hackers in the famous pandemic of 2021

08:13 the way we contained the virus was to

08:15 segment ourselves as much as possible we

08:17 had to identify and track the infected

08:19 people and quarantine them

08:21 we had to develop complex predictive

08:23 models and we had to find a safe vaccine

08:26 vaccine to inoculate everyone

08:28 the sassy solutions accomplished all

08:30 four of these to wipe out fraud scams

08:32 and attacks on the internet

08:38 you know doc what i found most

08:39 astounding is the esteem and reverence

08:41 that i.t professionals had in the future

08:44 they had a seat at the executive

08:45 roundtable and were involved in every

08:47 aspect of a business turns out digital

08:50 infrastructure of companies defined

08:52 their profit profitability more than any

08:54 other single thing

08:56 marty that's a huge difference from our

08:58 day i.t managers are often not

09:01 appreciated

09:02 yeah you know ai changed everything

09:05 i.t guys went from not really knowing

09:07 how their networks were being used to

09:09 having a seat at the board room

09:11 by learning about applications and

09:12 services it leaders became business

09:15 leaders having network intelligence or

09:17 network knowledge of how digital assets

09:20 were operating became the key source of

09:22 competitive advantage now everybody

09:24 wants to talk to the i.t guy

09:26 why did it take 50 years to get there

09:29 what's preventing us from doing these

09:31 things now well you know our networks

09:33 are multi-layered and today tunnel based

09:36 it's very hard to get useful telemetry

09:38 we try to recognize applications on the

09:41 fly but this has become harder

09:43 everything is encrypted and dns queries

09:45 are now completely invisible google and

09:48 facebook succeeded in getting sni

09:50 encrypted which was the last means of

09:52 identifying applications

09:55 so

09:56 if application creators and owners don't

09:59 want networks to know what's happening

10:01 how how did this amazing transformation

10:04 occur

10:04 well you know the application guys

10:06 aren't afraid of their names but they

10:08 are highly concerned about security ip

10:11 addresses and

10:12 network infrastructure and so forth so

10:15 when changing from using ip addresses to

10:18 names with ipv7 the application guys

10:20 started publishing their applications in

10:22 routing databases

10:24 did this make things better well it was

10:26 perhaps the biggest revolution so no

10:28 longer do application owners have to

10:30 publish list of ip addresses

10:32 but the pub sub model for obtaining

10:34 routes to applications also allowed

10:36 invitation only access which greatly

10:39 improved security all in application

10:41 guys started to cooperate with the

10:43 network guys and you know what they sang

10:45 kumbaya together

10:50 i was very surprised to learn that

10:51 juniper has been added to the dow jones

10:53 index you know it replaced cisco systems

10:56 cisco tried to fight progress but the

10:58 hyperscalers and application developers

11:00 really wanted a network that focused on

11:02 experience as soon as the application

11:04 guys discovered that juniper solutions

11:06 were experience based they became the

11:08 dominant force in networking

11:10 what happened to cisco well they

11:12 actually merged with a food services

11:13 company by the same sounding name

11:15 s-y-s-c-o you ever hear this yeah

11:17 now the bulk of their revenues are from

11:19 selling macaroni i heard biff got a job

11:21 at cisco

11:22 i guess i'm not gonna warn him

11:30 okay so

11:31 we we we

11:34 you know acting is not our long suit

11:37 but we really appreciate this time um

11:40 you know what what is really serious is

11:44 how important our networks are and what

11:46 we can learn from the past because we

11:47 can't really travel into the future but

11:49 if we learn from the past and look at

11:50 the challenges today we can start to

11:52 infer what are the right kinds of

11:54 solutions

11:55 you know an example would be if everyone

11:57 on this webinar looked out their window

11:59 and could visualize 500 billion dollars

12:02 of infrastructure global infrastructure

12:05 that drives the world's economy connects

12:08 us all and it's made up really would be

12:10 in three colors storage compute and

12:13 network

12:14 and what's happened is that storage and

12:16 compute have forever changed i mean

12:18 think about it when you go buy a laptop

12:20 it doesn't even have a disk drive

12:21 anymore your storage is in the cloud

12:24 and and compute you know vmware and

12:26 virtualization just changed the dynamics

12:28 and the economics of being able to

12:30 deploy things like data centers at gale

12:33 same thing's going to happen to

12:34 networking and the reason is both

12:36 storage and compute had general purpose

12:39 compute separating from the software and

12:41 the software could spin

12:43 free and innovate and you know it was

12:45 mark andreasen that you know said maybe

12:47 25 years ago software is going to eat

12:49 the world it's it's software can

12:51 innovate so quickly and so we've worked

12:53 really hard to separate the routing

12:55 software from any underlying hardware

12:57 requirements and really innovate and we

13:00 think that networking is going to

13:02 undergo the same revolution and

13:04 transformation and have the same kind of

13:06 business impact and opportunities as

13:08 storage and compute did one of the key

13:10 things is advancement without technical

13:12 debt you know this notion of putting

13:14 layers upon layers of complexity to

13:16 solve your current problem but just

13:18 making things more unwieldy you know pat

13:21 talk to us a little bit about technical

13:22 debt is that is that what's happening in

13:24 2021 and how do we avoid it

13:28 yeah you know it is my opinion that

13:29 there that um we're accumulating

13:31 technical debt in our networks at a

13:33 pretty rapid pace

13:34 you know in evidence of that that's easy

13:36 to see is there's like calls right now

13:38 for standards uh to be established so

13:41 that um

13:42 tunnel tunnels that are being

13:44 orchestrated

13:45 uh by one vendor can talk to tunnels

13:48 being orchestrated by another vendor or

13:50 even another instance of the same vendor

13:53 you know the fact that these sd-wan

13:55 solutions can't talk to each other is a

13:57 giant problem

13:58 it's also a problem that they're all

14:00 using slightly different proprietary

14:03 headers and information you know we the

14:06 the way that the network has become so

14:08 ubiquitous and powerful over over the

14:10 ages is because we've all used the same

14:13 protocols and and subscribe to standard

14:16 standards are very very important

14:18 you know

14:19 lately i've seen a bunch of standard

14:21 proposals being made for

14:23 people that want the overlay network to

14:26 actually communicate with and send

14:28 security events and and uh with the

14:31 underlay so you you know if an alarm or

14:34 a circuit issue or route issue happens

14:36 in the underlay you need to tell the

14:38 overlay and vice versa and you know it's

14:40 it's sort of maddening um

14:43 in terms of the amount of debt we're

14:44 accumulating and most recently i'll give

14:46 you you know another example of how

14:48 we're overloading existing protocols to

14:51 the extent that is probably going to

14:53 drive us uh to another breaking point so

14:56 the to the dns subsystem is really used

14:59 for routing today the dns system answers

15:01 the question for every client

15:04 not just what is the address of a

15:06 particular server but where is the best

15:08 server for me at this moment in time now

15:12 and so that's really a routine that

15:14 really should be the choice of the

15:16 network and not the choice of of dns i

15:18 mean dns is provisioned and populated

15:21 and takes you know 10 12 15 minutes for

15:24 it to be updated and we're using dns now

15:27 with very very short leases which is how

15:29 long the information is valid sometimes

15:31 measured in seconds and that's because

15:33 we want

15:34 clients to keep coming back to get new

15:36 information so we can do

15:38 spread stuff out do load balancing and

15:40 run our the internet in a different way

15:43 using dns as part of our routing

15:44 solution

15:46 you know so it's very important that um

15:49 that we pay attention to uh these kinds

15:52 of technologies that are being stretched

15:55 and

15:55 hopefully uh avoid sort of piling on the

15:58 tech and creating problems that just

16:00 won't go away and then solving them with

16:02 yet another another layer

16:05 so andy um

16:08 one of the you really strike uh it's it

16:11 sounds so interesting when you talk

16:12 about innovation and software and

16:14 why is it that

16:16 you know big companies oftentimes really

16:19 struggle with being innovative

16:22 you know well i mean the the truth is

16:24 innovation requires little companies and

16:27 big companies small groups and large

16:29 groups because it's not just the idea

16:31 it's not it's not a science experiment

16:33 it actually is delivering a solution

16:35 that has impactful positive business

16:38 outcomes in a sustained and scalable way

16:41 and so what you have is you have little

16:42 focused

16:43 organizations that worship from the

16:45 altar of disruption and speed whereas

16:48 you have larger organizations that are

16:50 about customer intimacy and business

16:52 predictability and so really it's almost

16:55 like a texas two-step and you know what

16:57 you find are small organizations can

17:00 really innovate and then need to partner

17:02 with the larger organizations to become

17:04 part of a broader context and you know

17:08 that that's a transition that we as an

17:10 organization went through about six

17:12 months ago you know so we patrick and i

17:16 are two of the seven co-founders of 128

17:18 technology and about six months ago we

17:21 found one of the greatest if not the

17:23 greatest routing company the most

17:25 innovative routing company in the world

17:27 where we were cohabitating a very large

17:29 10 000 site deployment in retail health

17:32 care and we realize one plus one really

17:34 equals four

17:36 and so

17:37 um you know we're able to provide

17:39 innovation and juniper is able to

17:42 provide full stack integration they're

17:44 able to provide comprehensive

17:46 uh security solutions they provide ml

17:49 and ai and cloud things that we don't

17:51 have and so it really is important that

17:54 you have both of those elements so that

17:56 the sustainable business outcomes can be

17:58 affected

17:59 you know sometimes what happens that big

18:01 companies themselves just try and

18:03 innovate without any real insight and it

18:07 ends up being that we pile on to an

18:09 existing technology in a way that just

18:11 isn't so valuable and starts to become

18:13 unwieldy and maybe even inefficient or

18:16 cause problems i'm pat do you want to i

18:18 know you have one that you want to talk

18:19 about

18:21 yeah you know

18:23 it's really interesting like um

18:25 the way the network works and i'm not

18:27 sure how many people know this but the

18:29 way it evolved was that uh it's all

18:32 based on tcp and with tcp you know in

18:35 the early days

18:36 andy i had the same problem in one of my

18:38 webinars don't touch the papers near

18:40 your computer

18:42 i'm so sorry

18:43 it's okay you do it very very carefully

18:46 it comes across very loud um

18:50 so the interesting part is is uh the way

18:52 the tcp operates is is it it never knows

18:56 how fast the network is

18:58 the client and server have no clue and

19:00 the server can send out packets way

19:02 faster than the network can can can

19:04 deliver them which would result in all

19:06 of those packets being dropped and

19:08 having to be retransmitted to prevent

19:10 this from happening over and over again

19:12 every time there's a client server uh

19:14 session that gets established the tcp

19:16 protocol starts slow and sort of ramps

19:19 up speed and when it gets to the point

19:22 where it's going as fast as the

19:24 end-to-end connection will allow a

19:26 packet will be dropped and when that

19:28 packet's dropped it signals the server

19:30 don't go any faster and it also signals

19:32 the client don't go any faster so

19:34 everybody sort of settles down locks in

19:36 and understands oh this is how fast i

19:38 can go and and without dropping packets

19:41 and that's how the the whole internet

19:43 works now the sd-wan guys

19:45 several of them

19:47 tout forward air correction as a way to

19:49 replace a packet that was dropped in the

19:51 middle of the network

19:52 and what's funny is is dropping packets

19:55 is essential for the network to work

19:57 correctly and so now the you know these

19:59 tunnels um because they're aggregate

20:01 flows and because

20:03 they're not a single inside of these

20:05 tunnels are hundreds if not thousands of

20:07 individual flows

20:09 because they're such large what we call

20:11 elephant flows they suffer more random

20:14 early discard than

20:16 than if if all of those sessions had

20:17 been uh separate and in different flows

20:20 going through the same routed network

20:22 first they would be spread out as much

20:24 and they wouldn't all be impacted by

20:25 random early discard but when a discard

20:27 occurs it's more likely to happen on a

20:29 tunnel so by adding forward air

20:31 correction they can recover that packet

20:33 but recovering that packet doesn't make

20:35 sense with the tcp standard and so

20:39 it and the worst part about it is is it

20:41 consumes up to 33

20:43 additional bandwidth on top of the

20:45 on top of the tunnel overhead so it's an

20:48 example yet of another sort of

20:50 solution to a problem that we created by

20:54 solving the problem with more tech you

20:56 know we need to get back to basics of

20:58 routing packets

20:59 if tunnel's only purpose is to get a

21:02 packet to go where it wouldn't go

21:03 otherwise we need to fix the way routing

21:06 works and that's what 128 technology did

21:09 and that's why juniper acquired us

21:12 you know andy um

21:14 it's really fascinating

21:19 because some you know that businesses

21:22 really really need to focus on their

21:24 digital infrastructure it's so important

21:26 to how they run maybe you could talk for

21:28 you know i i'm certainly interested in

21:30 your views on how

21:31 important the i.t profession and the

21:34 digital infrastructure of their

21:36 companies are and maybe you can comment

21:38 on that

21:39 yeah it's funny you know in the in the

21:41 present you know the little movie clip

21:43 you and i did um

21:45 we talked about the importance of the

21:47 i.t professional and uh it's true that i

21:51 t you know most people don't understand

21:53 in their organization what the cio does

21:55 it's very hard for them to figure it out

21:57 and they tend to look at it as a cost

21:59 center um and and to some extent there's

22:02 some truth to that

22:04 uh we're also seeing that um we're

22:06 outsourcing everything to the cloud you

22:08 know we're moving more and more to the

22:09 cloud and you tend not to outsource

22:11 things that are strategic and so these

22:14 are these tend to be short you know i

22:17 think that that this is a short-term

22:19 move of what's really going to happen to

22:20 i.t i think that it and the it

22:23 profession is going to become incredibly

22:25 strategic to every one of these large

22:28 corporations because as they digitally

22:30 transform all their engagement and all

22:33 their experience is going to be trolled

22:35 through the lens of what it is able to

22:37 deliver and secure and when you think

22:40 about it we live in a world even today

22:42 where the largest taxi cab company in

22:45 the world doesn't own a single car and

22:47 that's uber and the largest hotel chain

22:50 in the world doesn't own a single hotel

22:52 and that's airbnb and we've seen the

22:55 last 15 months of the pandemic we've

22:57 seen real digital engagement of all of

22:59 our stakeholders whether it's employees

23:01 or partners or customers

23:04 and you know what you realize is that

23:06 the network is where things stop and

23:08 where things start and it is critically

23:10 important so i do think that the next 10

23:12 years it is going to become more

23:15 strategic than it's ever been digital

23:17 transformation is real and the pandemic

23:20 has only served to accelerate it we have

23:22 a saying around juniper

23:24 that experience is the new uptime and it

23:27 and it really is because if people have

23:30 a good experience when they impact when

23:32 they interact with your business they're

23:33 going to do it again and if they have a

23:35 bad experience they may go somewhere

23:37 else and and that's really a big deal um

23:41 you know i've had i i guess i could say

23:43 marty

23:44 i'm kind of kind of uh

23:46 curious what else changed in 2028

23:50 well you know it it's really surprising

23:52 how the worlds of networking and the

23:54 worlds of um the application guys and

23:57 the and the devops guys all sort of

23:59 merge together into

24:02 an amazing world the application guys

24:05 really really have a lot of information

24:07 that the networking guys would like to

24:08 have for example if the user's failing

24:11 to log into a service repeatedly i would

24:14 think the networking guys would like to

24:16 know that secondly if an application

24:18 needs quality uh cost for a particular

24:22 purpose and the application owner is

24:24 willing to pay for it it would be really

24:26 quite nice if the application could

24:28 request that securely of the network

24:31 network intent being communicated

24:33 through the payload portion of packets

24:35 in the form of metadata

24:38 in the future could be incredibly

24:40 powerful way to not only authenticate

24:42 and secure connectivity between routers

24:45 but between routers and servers and

24:47 between clients and and and routed

24:49 networks so i i feel like you know this

24:52 ipv7 we we all make we made fun of it in

24:56 the in the video but there really does

24:58 have to be a new way

25:00 in the future there has to be a new way

25:02 we can't continue to use ip addresses

25:05 the way we've been using them

25:07 and

25:08 use dns to try to put some sense to them

25:11 and to figure out how to run these

25:13 networks securely it and express network

25:15 intent using addresses it's just not

25:18 going to work so i i am uh excited uh

25:21 when when i when we joined juniper i was

25:24 very excited because many of the people

25:26 in in juniper senior uh

25:28 engineering areas are very committed to

25:30 standards and the question started

25:32 coming up right away about well

25:34 when are we going to make secure vector

25:36 routing a standard when is the metadata

25:38 going to go through a standardization

25:39 process we want to make this stuff open

25:41 or we will never

25:43 that's what networking people do and

25:45 that was really good news for me and uh

25:48 we're very excited to say that juniper

25:50 is committed to making these things

25:51 standard and we really need our our

25:54 customers and our our support in in

25:56 achieving that

25:57 um because you know we can't do it

25:59 ourselves we need we need our big

26:01 customers to help us but we're very

26:03 excited about that and i do believe that

26:05 that networking networking is in a a

26:08 sort of a place where it's going to

26:10 change fast not only andy because of the

26:12 things you said

26:14 the introduction and software but also

26:16 incredible brokenness in how it's

26:18 working and how we're just layering on

26:21 more inefficient layers of technology to

26:23 solve problems that only create more

26:25 problems and make things harder to

26:27 understand

26:28 and i just feel like we're at it we're

26:30 at a breaking point and there's going to

26:31 be some fantastic innovation i do

26:33 believe juniper's found it in ai and in

26:37 secure vector routing uh swirled

26:39 together that's my belief

26:42 yeah i mean i mean the thing you know

26:43 patrick and i are new to juniper we've

26:45 been here for a little over half a year

26:48 and so we have fresh eyes and what's

26:51 wonderful first of all is that the

26:52 commitment is authentic

26:54 that the folks are present they believe

26:56 what patrick's saying that change is

26:58 afoot they need to think differently

27:00 they need to partner they need to assess

27:02 their value

27:03 in terms of the impactful business

27:05 outcomes they can have with their

27:07 customers slash partners

27:09 the other thing is that juniper very

27:11 much is in the goldilocks zone

27:13 they're big enough to be global they're

27:15 big enough to have a comprehensive

27:17 solution from full stack at the edge all

27:20 the way into the cloud with all of the

27:22 requisite technologies like ml and ai

27:25 but they're small enough that they can

27:27 all get in a room and they can really

27:28 talk about the issues

27:30 and they're they're the things they buy

27:32 the things they acquire are truly

27:34 impactful

27:35 and

27:36 you know that that's why i think you're

27:37 going to continue to see

27:39 juniper lead through this incredible

27:42 transition

27:43 of what's going on in this market

27:45 so with that i think we ought to open it

27:47 up to questions really appreciate

27:48 everyone's time on this webinar

27:51 pat we're um

27:53 maybe let me move my papers here without

27:55 making too much noise and let's look at

27:56 some of these questions

28:04 so there was a question about um

28:06 ai features and how they helped during

28:08 the course of time in in performance of

28:11 the network

28:13 well i have to say um i always prided

28:16 myself when i was a cto and top

28:18 technologist at both acme packet and 128

28:22 that i i understood everything about

28:24 technology and i can honestly say it's

28:27 embarrassing but i knew nothing about ai

28:29 and ml and i did not appreciate how it

28:32 worked i did not appreciate what it

28:34 could mean or the power that it it has

28:36 andy and i used to sit around

28:38 over having we share an office because

28:41 we're i don't know why we share an

28:42 office which is ridiculous but

28:44 we would sit around and have coffee and

28:46 talk about when cars will drive

28:48 themselves and when they won't

28:50 and um we would argue

28:52 literally for hours about the same topic

28:54 you know

28:55 and of course

28:56 neither of us really knows the answer um

28:59 but

29:00 artificial intelligence is really unique

29:02 and and the way i i'm a i'm a guy that

29:06 has to see it and touch it to believe it

29:09 when i got to juniper and i started

29:10 talking to the data scientists

29:12 at first i said yeah yeah yeah it's all

29:14 crap and then i i saw some of the models

29:17 they have and i was blown away so for

29:20 example we struggled and the best way to

29:23 to explain it is through example we

29:25 struggled and literally

29:27 uh had so much difficulty with some bad

29:30 cables at a large deployment it was a 10

29:32 000

29:33 router deployment at a major retail

29:35 store and and there were two routers at

29:37 every site connected by a two foot long

29:39 cable which provided the dog leg and a

29:42 method of communicating between the

29:43 active and the standby

29:45 because we only saw software at the time

29:48 we were an independent company

29:50 the customer had to go out and buy these

29:52 cables and so they spec them out as cat

29:54 6 cables and they ordered 10 000 of them

29:56 and uh

29:58 you know they

29:59 they're only two foot long cable and you

30:01 know we wound up having a bunch of

30:04 problems and uh

30:06 in these routers and the the the symptom

30:08 was that the uh auto negotiation would

30:11 fluctuate from you know full speed to to

30:14 it would downshift to slower speeds we

30:16 wound up seeing some occasional runts or

30:19 framing errors or or and this was across

30:22 a large number

30:23 of of these different locations and you

30:26 know the end customer was just

30:28 fit to be tied it was they were they

30:29 were excited about the technology but

30:31 frustrated that the hardware wasn't

30:33 working they thought it was the hardware

30:34 we tried swapping the hardware things

30:36 out

30:36 we tried everything and literally after

30:38 three or four weeks we said well gee why

30:41 don't we swap out the cable and they

30:43 didn't believe that the cables could

30:45 cause such a problem but we did swap

30:46 them out at one site and the problem

30:48 went away we then realized that by

30:51 testing the cables and having them

30:53 taking them to a test lab that they were

30:55 insufficient and as much as 10 or 15

30:58 percent of them were bad not all of them

31:00 but they had no way to know of the 10

31:02 000 locations which locations had the

31:05 bag cables and which ones didn't and so

31:07 they wound up having to replace them all

31:09 i got to juniper and the very first

31:12 example they showed me on their aiml was

31:15 a bad cable detection algorithm and you

31:18 know

31:18 they trained it they got data from bad

31:21 cables over and the and the data science

31:23 guys who don't know anything about

31:24 networking or bad cables we're able to

31:26 see the data behind it and able to make

31:29 predictive models of not only cables

31:32 that were actively failing but cables

31:34 that were likely to fail or or degrade

31:37 and keep in mind cable performance is

31:39 tied to lots of things including

31:41 temperature and humidity so

31:43 i have to say that i fell off my chair

31:46 when i saw that and and then i saw some

31:48 of their other models they're developing

31:49 it's truly transformational i mean

31:52 imagine the cost of replacing all those

31:54 cables because you just don't know and

31:56 andy uh i always tell you when i

31:58 remember when i first saw the internet

32:00 and i told you this was going to change

32:01 the world this ai ml and networking is

32:04 going to change networking

32:06 yeah i mean another example are we we

32:09 statically engineer and provision

32:11 pathways on our network for the types of

32:13 services and our biases are programmed

32:15 in there as well so we may sit there and

32:17 say voice needs to go over the mpls

32:19 circuit we'll use the dia circuit for

32:21 something else

32:22 but you know a network a learning

32:24 network is able to look at this and

32:26 might say actually that's not the case

32:28 and so if it's able to harvest in real

32:30 time what's going on it can start

32:33 challenge some of our biases and

32:35 empirically derive what are the best

32:37 ways best paths best resources for the

32:40 kinds of services we want not to mention

32:42 that things are our dynamic

32:45 you know william has a question here

32:46 about you know header compression as a

32:48 way to say bandwidth and before i turn

32:50 that over to pat because we did have an

32:51 argument early on about header

32:53 compression um versus tunnelless

32:56 architectures and what the difference is

32:58 there are so many reasons not just the

33:00 bandwidth savings for not using tunnels

33:03 they're

33:04 bi-directional they provide a trap door

33:06 in the in the return path they increase

33:09 your attack surface area they make it

33:10 very difficult to manage individual

33:13 sessions on a link and dynamically move

33:15 that um there's lots of different

33:17 reasons but pat maybe you want to

33:18 briefly talk about um header compression

33:20 versus what we're doing

33:23 yeah so uh i mean in fact some people

33:26 who are really smart say you're still an

33:27 overlay and you are just compressing

33:29 headers and while that's true

33:32 uh we eliminate all the extra data

33:34 that's sent over and over and over again

33:36 on every packet by by using session

33:38 state to do it what andy said is

33:40 critically important we also enforce the

33:42 return pathway which is what a firewall

33:44 would do

33:45 and and by keeping the the flows

33:48 together into a session uh we've we've

33:50 been able to provide a lot more

33:52 analytics and information that would be

33:55 useful to an ai solution or to a a siem

33:59 solution or to a network owner an

34:00 operator i mean we actually don't need

34:03 to build an a a complete overlay data

34:06 collection and data processing thing to

34:08 figure out what's going on in our

34:09 network we actually know

34:11 so uh

34:12 all of that's really good but in the

34:14 metadata like we talked about

34:16 the metadata being used to compress the

34:18 tunnel or get rid of the tunnel it also

34:20 contains routing intent

34:22 and it's signed and it's signed by the

34:25 first router for the second router

34:27 and it also has a time of day in the

34:30 signature so what winds up happening is

34:32 this means that nothing can be replayed

34:35 this means that that if i'm a router

34:37 talking to another router in the network

34:39 every packet that arrives at that

34:40 interface is absolutely authenticated

34:43 from it its source is authenticatable

34:46 also inside this metadata is a session

34:48 id that is attached or assigned by the

34:51 first router that sees the session and

34:53 and starts the process and so you can

34:56 trace things through the network like an

34:58 audit basis you can actually even on our

35:00 products get traces for a particular

35:03 session through the entire network of

35:04 routers that support the metadata and so

35:07 we

35:08 it's a it's a it's a transformational

35:10 way

35:11 to do uh to express network uh intent

35:14 between between routers that works

35:17 through every firewall every

35:18 carrier-grade net so it really is a

35:20 bigger deal than just header compression

35:23 and andy there was another question here

35:26 yeah

35:26 there was a question here about

35:28 bad actors working their way into ipv7

35:32 um you know

35:35 first of all virtually the entire dns

35:37 infrastructure is is not is used in an

35:40 unencrypted fashion and i know there's

35:42 lots of efforts uh dnssec and there's

35:44 lots of efforts to make people stop

35:46 doing that

35:47 but when you think about

35:50 like like office 365 they publish their

35:53 addresses online so that firewall

35:56 administrators can build rules to

35:59 secure or to increase the security

36:02 between the their their routers or their

36:04 firewalls at their locations and

36:06 microsoft's uh office 365 servers and

36:10 they update this monthly or whatever and

36:13 i think zoom does the same thing i think

36:15 salesforce doesn't say all these basic

36:17 uh software as a service uh guys are

36:20 updating their their addresses and

36:21 information we

36:23 we think that

36:25 and it's all done in a non-standard

36:26 fashion like everyone has their own way

36:28 of doing it

36:29 most people it's a document on an html

36:31 document it's got to be hand entered

36:34 into our extended acls and our routers

36:37 manually and we have to do all the

36:39 the bitwise math uh to make to enter the

36:41 stuff correctly and it's just really

36:44 painstakingly painful and the question

36:46 is would

36:47 application owners uh submit that

36:49 information into a registry that is

36:51 accessible securely i actually think

36:53 they would i think it would be

36:55 you know the nice thing about

36:57 subscription models for information

36:59 routing information is that

37:00 you could publish information in a

37:02 routing database for only those parties

37:04 that you want to obtain it

37:07 and i know it's complicated but you know

37:09 linkedin facebook these are amazing

37:12 networks of of social networks where

37:15 they scale to unbelievable sizes where

37:17 there's a lot of controls over who can

37:19 see what and and who can access what it

37:21 doesn't seem far-fetched to me that that

37:23 couldn't be how the the the router

37:26 network operates in the future

37:29 pat let's see if we can go into the next

37:30 one which is you know expand on using

37:32 words instead of ip addresses

37:35 yeah so inside this metadata that i

37:38 talked about we actually put two words

37:40 in there the one word is the tenant and

37:42 another which is basically the

37:44 identifies the client's network zone or

37:46 security zone or or and and

37:49 and

37:50 the tenant is structured as a as a

37:52 dotted domain-like address so it can

37:55 you can only be in one vlan but you know

37:57 if you use a dotted domain name like

38:00 model you can actually be in a

38:02 hierarchical set of vlans which is

38:05 essentially uh which is what we do so

38:07 you could be you know an employee but

38:09 you could also be a director you could

38:11 also be a a a you know an executive and

38:15 you could

38:16 have all these different tiers defined

38:18 by uh like like a domain address and

38:21 that's the tenant side that

38:22 that's who's wanting the service and

38:24 it's not a 10.0 address or

38:27 it's a real textual name and then the

38:30 service itself is a real textual name

38:33 very similar to a domain name service

38:36 that you would get in dns in fact it's

38:37 identical and so what winds up happening

38:40 is in this network intent you know the

38:42 name of the service the person wants and

38:43 you know who the requester is by

38:45 security zone or by or and and you trust

38:48 it because it's been signed by the the

38:50 branch router so you trust it and it

38:52 gives you information that you wouldn't

38:54 have otherwise so now when you get to

38:57 the other side of the network

38:58 forget you you don't even need dns

39:01 really what you need is you have the

39:02 name of the service you need to know

39:04 where that service is and if that

39:06 service is on a specific address you can

39:08 route you can not nat to that address or

39:10 route straight to that address so that

39:12 the name itself stays in the routing

39:15 system from beginning to end now

39:17 invariably you leave the the

39:20 the domain of this kind of routed

39:22 network and wind up in the old world in

39:24 the old world you are correct you know

39:27 no one's going to be able to read that

39:30 name out until this kind of networking

39:32 ipv7 spreads like wildfire

39:37 i think i answered the question i hope

39:39 yeah yeah

39:41 so um next one is about dna ns and

39:43 cookies playing a role in svr between

39:46 two public ips

39:49 uh where's the question i don't see it

39:50 here oh hold on it says do the dns and

39:54 cookies play any role in svr between two

39:56 public ips

39:59 oh

40:00 um

40:03 well you know

40:05 the public ips classically that we use

40:07 today are not

40:09 really

40:10 they're like um

40:12 like at your branch office no one really

40:14 probably even knows your public address

40:16 um unless you are smart enough to figure

40:18 it out and when you go to a service the

40:20 branch you know the public address

40:22 that's on the edge of the data center

40:25 that your tunnel's using today you may

40:27 not be able to discern as well i think

40:30 the um

40:32 you know the the public addresses in the

40:34 ipv4 network and the ipv6 network are

40:36 like transport addresses that the

40:39 networking world needs to know they need

40:41 i i need to know how to get to the data

40:43 center and then once at the edge of the

40:45 data center how to get to the servers

40:47 that have the service i'm looking for

40:49 and the name that we're putting in the

40:51 metadata helps with both

40:54 we call those public addresses by the

40:56 way at

40:58 uh in our ssr product at juniper we call

41:00 those public addresses waypoints they're

41:02 like if you know ipv6 segment routing

41:05 they're like

41:06 um

41:07 the segments they're they're like the

41:09 the the the

41:10 the instance of the fact

41:13 and pat where you're going to go i want

41:15 let me loop two questions into what

41:16 you're about to say because it's

41:18 important we had a question about is

41:20 this name data routing and we had a

41:21 question about how is this different

41:23 from segment routing and i remember

41:26 around our shop for the last five years

41:28 you would talk about you know the recipe

41:30 for doing what we do is taking segment

41:32 routing some name data routing and some

41:34 lisp and stirring it together maybe we

41:36 want to maybe you want to talk a little

41:37 bit about that i think that'll put name

41:39 data routing and segment routing into

41:40 context

41:42 yeah sure so name data routing it does

41:44 suggest that you you route to named

41:46 objects on on the internet and let the

41:48 network figure out where they are

41:51 and in a sense we do that only you know

41:54 so

41:55 that's why it's one part name data

41:57 networking um although

42:00 name data networking operates on top of

42:02 an existing network it requires a

42:04 complete change in how clients and

42:06 servers operate and so

42:08 we on the other hand

42:10 uh can bridge the old world to this

42:13 named world by using our router as a way

42:16 of applying those kinds of policies

42:18 with lisp you know it's it

42:20 it has too weak it has a weakness and it

42:22 has a strength the strength the strength

42:24 of

42:25 of lisp is that it has a big database of

42:28 of things that you need to get to and it

42:31 gives you an address to get there so

42:34 that's similar to how our step protocol

42:37 operates where

42:38 uh you know you you it's like dns you

42:41 give it a name and uh it instead of it

42:43 giving you the actual address

42:46 of

42:47 of the service instance it gives you the

42:50 waypoint address to get there but it

42:52 operates very similar to dns and lisp

42:54 it's like it's like lisp more than dns

42:57 but it's similar where you can look

42:58 things up to find out an address to send

43:00 stuff to

43:01 and then of course ipv6 segment routing

43:04 you know with ipv6 segment routing you

43:06 change the address of the packet to go

43:08 to the router you want it to go to

43:11 in our world we changed the source

43:14 address

43:15 and the destination address to be the

43:16 router addresses to create a pair of

43:18 routers so i'm the source router you're

43:20 the desk writer i changed the address

43:22 source address to me i changed the

43:24 desktop to you now i have a pathway

43:26 between me and you for a session a

43:29 singular session and in return

43:32 the the return path is assumed to be

43:34 exactly the same

43:36 and so the reverse addresses are used in

43:38 the return path and we can send four

43:41 billion unique sessions between any two

43:43 routers using this technique

43:45 and so that's all three of them combined

43:47 it's like the best of all threes merged

43:49 together the weakness with lisp of

43:50 course is that there's no security and

43:52 if you know the the our loc or the the

43:55 the the secret address that's returned

43:57 from the that's the server you can send

43:59 packets into a data center with without

44:01 there's no there's no um uh

44:03 authentication so we've added that so

44:05 it's like all three put together

44:08 into one

44:09 and and something that's really

44:11 important because there is 500 billion

44:13 dollars of existing infrastructure you

44:15 know over the last 15 or 20 years people

44:17 have talked about starting a brand new

44:18 internet it's just not going to happen

44:21 we need we need technologies and

44:24 solutions that innovate in place and so

44:27 you know if you have our technology at a

44:29 thin edge at a branch site and you have

44:31 it in a data center or at another branch

44:34 site that that works we we can and it

44:36 will work with regular ordinary routers

44:39 in between and we don't need

44:41 bi-directionality but when you

44:43 think about the importance of experience

44:46 and how that is all session based on you

44:49 know it's a digital transformation that

44:51 does really presuppose that you are able

44:54 to

44:55 get the bi-directionality so that you're

44:57 able to make sure that the total

45:00 experience not one way or the other is

45:04 functioning well and and that's really

45:06 important

45:07 so you know so andy there's been several

45:09 questions about ipv7 um

45:13 it was a complete farcical notion that

45:15 there was an ipv7 so there really is no

45:17 ipv7

45:18 um you know we were there are bad actors

45:20 though

45:21 well there are bad actors but think

45:23 about the thing about ipv7 is is you

45:26 know we have to get away from using

45:28 these fixed sort of addresses that have

45:31 no meaning to humans

45:32 to express network intent and whether

45:34 you want to call that ipv7 or you want

45:36 to call it uh

45:39 you know

45:40 i don't know what we're going to call it

45:41 but i i think something has to change

45:43 we're at a breaking point and so we made

45:45 that up as a joke

45:48 um

45:49 yeah you know there was a question here

45:51 about you know is 128 uh somehow a zero

45:54 trust network zero tr you know for acc

45:56 an access concept between firewalls no

45:58 tunnels only encrypted sessions

46:02 yeah it is it is zero trust in many ways

46:05 uh first of all every single session is

46:08 authenticated with its unique signature

46:11 on every single header at first packet

46:14 on every on the metadata it's signed and

46:16 then

46:17 thereafter every single packet has an

46:20 hmac um checksum on it or an hmac

46:22 signature on it every single packet that

46:24 is unique to that particular tenant uh

46:27 tenant that is where the traffic is

46:29 coming from

46:30 uh so it it really is um

46:33 you know you can't get one packet into

46:35 this it's it's it's as secure or not as

46:38 a ipsec tunnel would be it's absolutely

46:41 as secure as that nothing can get in in

46:44 in the back way

46:45 but it's more secure than a tunnel in

46:47 the sense of what andy said earlier you

46:49 know tunnels are like open doors like

46:52 it's like a hallway with open doors on

46:54 both ends that open up pathways and

46:57 to a t all of our sd-wan competitors

47:00 use cider block style

47:02 uh

47:04 route enablement

47:05 uh through these tunnels like they

47:07 create they they use these tunnels to

47:08 create a larger

47:10 you know private network that spans from

47:12 your data center to your brand site and

47:14 then you have to go about the business

47:16 of deciding what should go through that

47:18 tunnel with either extended acls or or

47:22 whatever that particular vendor offers

47:24 as a way to to stop things from going

47:26 through the tunnel that shouldn't go

47:27 through the tunnel you know because once

47:29 you open that door

47:30 things could sneak in and out and we

47:32 don't do that we treat each session

47:35 as a unique

47:36 authenticated admittance uh in both

47:40 directions so if it's going from the

47:42 data center to the to the branch uh

47:45 it is a unique session that is is

47:47 separated from the the the session going

47:50 the opposite way from the branch to the

47:51 data center so it really is uh

47:54 zero trust between these routers and

47:56 when you think about um

47:58 segmentation um you know what a lot of

48:02 sd-wan

48:03 companies do is they say well you need

48:05 to have a separate tunnel for if you

48:07 want to have pci compliance

48:09 between the branch and the data center

48:13 you don't need that with our solution we

48:15 are in fact we do quite well in the

48:16 retail area especially the largest

48:18 retail companies on the planet because

48:21 they use our technique for obtaining pci

48:24 compliance it's very very secure

48:26 and you don't have to have a separate

48:27 tunnel

48:28 for to achieve that level of separation

48:32 right right a very easy way to think

48:34 about what we're talking about

48:36 is if you know pat and i each have a

48:38 phone and i can call pat he can answer

48:40 it he can tell me what he sees

48:42 and perhaps he is a video sensor we hang

48:46 up when pat picks his phone off hook he

48:47 doesn't get dial tone so by making route

48:50 paths directional and session stateful

48:54 you really can provide a lot of security

48:56 natively it's almost like a firewall on

48:58 every single route path

49:01 there's a question here about um traffic

49:03 encryption you know pat should elaborate

49:05 on this because it's really interesting

49:07 where things are going and how the

49:08 solution works

49:10 yeah so

49:11 some some sessions or some services do

49:14 need encryption because they're not

49:16 encrypted it may be a an older sort of

49:19 sort of technique your company's using

49:20 that is from 20 years ago and there's no

49:22 encryption uh what we see in most of the

49:25 networks we're in is that about 80 to 85

49:28 of everything that's going between the

49:30 branch and the data center or the branch

49:32 and the internet is already encrypted

49:34 it's already encrypted but and 20 is not

49:37 and of that 20 percent a lot of it is

49:39 things like dns or and or ntp you know

49:42 old-fashioned protocols

49:44 and some of them are going through the

49:46 the the

49:47 branch to data center connections

49:50 and so what we do is we have this

49:52 conditional encryption notion and when

49:54 we see um

49:56 protocols that are not encrypted uh we

49:58 actually can encrypt the payload using

50:00 aes 256 which is the same cipher that

50:03 everyone's using with um with an ipsec

50:06 tunnel so you you're essentially got the

50:08 same

50:09 uh cryptographic security but without

50:12 necessarily having the overhead of

50:14 establishing a complete tunnel and we do

50:17 it on a session by space session by

50:19 session basis so it it's as good as tls

50:23 uh in that sense it's session by session

50:25 and it's encryption for each session we

50:27 do all the key management between the

50:28 routers for those protocols that don't

50:30 have

50:31 uh encryption but we don't re-encrypt

50:34 everything else and so if you're using

50:35 ipsec tunnels

50:37 and 80 of your traffic's already

50:39 encrypted you're paying a heavy price

50:41 both in terms of increased latency

50:43 increased bandwidth and and a much lower

50:47 performing uh router because of all the

50:49 encryption work it's doing

50:51 so we do not

50:55 there's a question here about for an

50:56 enterprise currently to make use of of

50:59 the 128 solution the juniper 128

51:01 solution is an on-prem data center

51:03 on-prem slash data center the model as

51:06 opposed to public cloud so maybe we

51:07 should talk about

51:09 where we are with cloud so so we

51:11 we make software and in the same exact

51:14 software like the exact same

51:16 distrib release of software will run at

51:19 aws it'll run on a dell server it'll run

51:22 on a on a lantern or an azure telecom

51:25 box it'll run in azure it'll run in uh

51:28 uh

51:28 uh

51:30 ali cloud i mean it's the same exact

51:32 software and it runs on high-end

51:35 yeah and

51:36 so you don't have to it's almost like

51:39 and and you can have one

51:42 sheet of glass to run all of that you

51:44 know one conductor to run all of it and

51:46 when we you know when bit when um marty

51:48 was coming back from the future and he

51:50 said that the it guy uh controlled

51:53 things that were in the public clouds uh

51:55 that's how you would do it is you you

51:57 have complete network control of all

51:59 these routers wherever they're located

52:05 so um another question was about you

52:07 know does 1500 byte packet size make

52:09 sense in a world of 100 and 400 gig

52:12 links and you know first of all a huge

52:15 part of the gain of our technology and

52:18 not encapsulating happens with the

52:20 latency with respect to small packet

52:22 sizes where interactive

52:24 communications are involved i mean you

52:26 can see latency cut in half at that

52:28 point but it is true that if you try and

52:30 encapsulate large packets you can result

52:32 you know it can be packet fragmentation

52:34 as a result but maybe you want to answer

52:37 the question more broadly about

52:39 yeah

52:40 it's it's a very good question because

52:42 we on the outset our assumption was that

52:44 we'd only save 12 to 15 percent of the

52:46 bandwidth when we before we actually got

52:48 customers and really dug into it the

52:51 assumption was that oh you know this

52:52 1500 byte packet uh it needs to be act

52:55 with a small packet the average would be

52:57 750 bytes you know uh velocloud uses a

53:01 hundred and third 131 bytes of

53:03 of overhead we don't have any

53:06 therefore we would save 131 over 750 12

53:09 14 and that that was our assumption

53:12 and and

53:13 we were so surprised at how many small

53:16 packets are out there in real networks

53:18 you know we did a retail establishment

53:20 and they didn't believe that they were

53:22 going to save anything they were using

53:23 cisco dmvpn and they weren't even using

53:26 sd-wan it was just dm vpn which is a

53:29 basically uses ipsec tunnels to connect

53:31 branches to to uh the data center and

53:34 they said there's no way you know you're

53:35 going to save 15

53:37 no way so we

53:39 counted

53:40 real traffic on a real we we were

53:42 implemented in a real store for a trial

53:44 and we measured and compared uh the

53:46 traffic before and after the

53:48 implementation and we we uh did it over

53:52 a two hour period and we saved them 37

53:55 and you know

53:56 the question really comes down to why

53:58 are there so many small packets what are

53:59 their proprietary apps and why are they

54:01 sending small packets and all those i

54:03 don't have the answers to all those

54:05 i mean

54:06 all i can say is is that

54:08 it was 37 savings and they were just

54:10 dumbfounded when they computed because

54:13 everything has to go through a security

54:14 stack and because they uh have to have

54:17 data center head-end routers and they

54:18 have to have uh circuits and everything

54:21 for this whole network they were saving

54:23 five terabytes a day based on that and

54:25 and it really did move the needle and i

54:28 you know it is surprising um i think

54:30 everyone should should

54:32 measure their own

54:33 uh

54:34 you know try to measure their own we

54:36 added a feature in our product that

54:38 actually does it for you and it tells

54:40 you how much you're saving over using a

54:42 velocloud-like solution uh or or

54:46 you know a solution based on ipsec

54:48 tunnels and it computes it in real time

54:50 and you'll see it vary from 12 to go as

54:53 high as 50 percent for certain

54:55 applications like voice we we do a lot

54:57 of voice as well

54:58 it saves well into the hundred percent

55:00 range well into a hundred

55:02 it it's amazing it's it's like a it cuts

55:05 your bandwidth in half so

55:07 it is remarkable actually and and before

55:10 people say it doesn't matter they really

55:12 need to start looking at their costs of

55:14 their of all their head and routing

55:15 equipment and circuits right

55:18 and and you know a derivative of that is

55:20 that you know more and more people are

55:21 using wireless as a backup

55:24 to augment their wireline connectivity

55:26 and if you need to move a session that's

55:28 not performing onto a wireless link and

55:31 you depend upon tunnels you're either

55:32 going to drop the session because the

55:34 tunnel convergence time is going to be

55:35 longer than what the session timer will

55:37 allow or you're going to keep the

55:38 session you're going to keep the tunnel

55:40 alive and incur a pretty onerous expense

55:42 in terms of heartbeat

55:45 while you're just waiting to receive

55:46 something that may or may not

55:48 happen so

55:50 you know not requiring tunnels means

55:51 that you can just move over to wireless

55:53 link you you can move the session it

55:55 runs and there's no convergence time

55:57 there's no bandwidth penalty in terms of

55:59 a heartbeat there was i think john had a

56:01 question as it related to does this

56:03 replace bgp and that's a good question

56:06 that is a good question the

56:08 no it it doesn't in fact our although we

56:10 didn't explicitly talk about it in our

56:13 in this presentation our router has to

56:15 support ospf bgp and all the different

56:17 routing protocols that are in use today

56:19 because there's nothing wrong with layer

56:21 three layer three works fine you know

56:23 the issue really is when networks talk

56:25 to each other it's like i have an rfc

56:27 1918 private network running 10.0

56:30 addresses and i need to talk to aws that

56:32 has another 10-0 address space and our

56:35 approach to this over the last three

56:37 decades has been let's make a win and

56:39 normalize all this addressing so

56:41 everything can talk to everything and

56:43 then we'll put in extended acls to

56:45 prevent everything from talking to

56:46 everything and then you know

56:49 let's hope the company doesn't divest

56:51 anything or buy anything or or change

56:53 anything because oh my god

56:54 it it it just becomes so freaking

56:56 brittle and so we said the problem is

56:59 you can't go between networks it's an

57:00 inter-networking problem we have it's

57:02 not a networking problem it's how these

57:04 networks where these networks meet that

57:06 bgp doesn't go

57:08 you can't connect be you know bgp won't

57:11 allow you to connect a private network

57:13 over a public network to a private

57:15 network it doesn't permit that that's

57:17 the focus of what we're trying to do

57:20 here which is create an internetwork

57:22 that works

57:26 so something you said uh sparked ramesh

57:28 uh to have an observation saying so i

57:30 suppose this is an overlay then

57:33 yes it it it is an overlay technically

57:35 we get into this dispute of is it an

57:37 overlay and it is a logical overlay for

57:40 sure it just isn't tunnel based it

57:42 signals with metadata

57:44 in the first packets of sessions and um

57:47 not in every session like ipv6 segment

57:50 routing but just in the first packet

57:53 right right

57:55 well patrick i you know i i guess i'd

57:58 like to just you know end by saying

57:59 thank you to everyone that came um you

58:02 know we have lots of materials we run

58:05 um you know lots of webinars seminars um

58:09 we're distributed all over the world

58:11 come check us out we we really feel like

58:13 we can have a dramatic income on your

58:16 digital transformation journey that will

58:18 have positive business outcomes for your

58:21 enterprise or your organization and um

58:24 you know we're we're here for you so i

58:26 hope this is the beginning of a

58:27 relationship or an extension of an

58:30 existing relationship pat is there

58:32 anything you want to end with yeah i'm

58:33 on linkedin if anybody wants to have a

58:35 one-on-one about the technology i i just

58:38 love it so give reach out to me on

58:39 linkedin

58:42 excellent

58:44 thank you