Wes Purvis, Product Manager, Juniper Networks

Juniper Continues to Trailblaze Wi-Fi Networks

AI & MLWireless
Slide with a headline that says, “So, Do We Need mGig for AP Uplink?” Below that is a bullet list that says: “Facts of life: * Today most Aps utilize <100 Mbps aggregate * Will burst up to 200–500 Mbps depending on channel bandwidth * Generally need 100 MHz of spectrum to exceed 1 Gbps of real-world burst throughput.” To the right of the bullet list is a bar graph that says, “PEAK REAL WORLD THROUGHPUT.” The y axis is Mbps from 0 to 1400 in increments of 200. The x axis has four labels: “1) Dual Band–20 MHz + 20 MHz, 2) Dual Band–20 MHz + 40 MHz, 3) Dual Band–40 MHz + 40 MHz, 4) Tri Band–20 MHz + 40 MHz + 80 MHz.” A horizontal line goes across the graph at the 1,000 Mbps level. The results are: 1) 200 Mbps, 2) 400 Mbps, 3) 800 Mbps, 4) 1,300 Mbps.

What about wireless? Get answers here. 

Mist AI began as a wireless technology, and Juniper continues innovating and evolving its powerful AI-powered Wi-Fi solution. Wes Purvis presents and demonstrates advances in Wi-Fi 6E, 6G, coverage, capacity, and more. This in-depth presentation is part of Networking Field Day 27. 

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You’ll learn

  • How to use Mist AI’s new packet capture feature, which is handy when you need it 

  • What it means when we say “We’ve entered a new era of Wi-Fi”

  • Five things to know about Gigabit Wi-Fi (802.11ac), including power considerations

Who is this for?

Network Professionals Security Professionals


Wes Purvis
Product Manager, Juniper Networks


0:08 so this is a a network field day so i

0:11 will

0:13 approach network field day with a

0:14 wireless focus but still try to keep it

0:17 from a network perspective

0:20 so first up i want to talk about some

0:22 things that we're doing around

0:25 packet capture and some some

0:26 enhancements that were

0:28 that we're bringing here so if you

0:31 have followed missed at all um you know

0:33 from a wireless perspective we have a a

0:36 dynamic packet capture feature where we

0:39 are

0:40 anytime that a client has a bad event we

0:43 are capturing that and sending it to the

0:45 cloud and you can download the packet

0:47 capture and you know for customers and

0:50 you know we capture millions and

0:52 millions of packet captures every single

0:54 day across our customers

0:56 hardly any of them get looked at which

0:58 is a good thing because we have um it

0:59 means you don't need to go to the packy

1:01 capture to understand what's going on

1:03 but it's there if you need it

1:05 and sometimes it's nice to have

1:07 you know the ability to do a manual

1:09 packet capture

1:11 which we have had that capability for a

1:13 long time as well um where you come in

1:16 and you say you want to capture some

1:17 packets from a you know from the aps um

1:20 on you know either the wireless or wired

1:22 interface um on the ap

1:25 but it was a it was basically this

1:27 option here you capture to a pcap file

1:31 uh and

1:32 now what we're

1:34 you know what we're doing is so when

1:35 when you press that captured a file you

1:38 really i really hope i put in the right

1:39 filter i'm capturing what i think i'm

1:41 capturing um what we're introducing and

1:43 i'm bringing out is a a streaming packet

1:46 capture capability where we stream the

1:49 packet captures from the aps and we're

1:50 building the framework right where this

1:52 to be able to have this streaming uh

1:54 this the streaming pack capture from

1:56 devices um and starting with aps so be

1:59 able to stream

2:00 the packet capture in real time

2:03 right into the ui um and then afterwards

2:05 if you know you can download that pack

2:07 capture file um and open up from

2:09 wireshark to do your actual analysis but

2:12 you know within the ui to be able to do

2:14 you know basic analysis um and ensure

2:16 that you're you're capturing what you

2:17 intend to capture

2:19 um and it's built

2:22 you know to kind of scale your your your

2:24 capture so if you're if you're used to

2:27 um

2:28 doing a uh a

2:30 a port mirror on individual ports or um

2:33 you know your typically your pack

2:35 captures are limited in scale of what

2:37 you can capture right

2:39 with with mispack capture you can you

2:41 can capture all aps in the site so let's

2:43 say i wanted to look at lldp

2:46 um

2:47 and

2:48 for all the aps in a site right and

2:51 here i just i just did it these are all

2:53 the packets coming in um this happens to

2:55 be um uh you know the missed office um

2:59 and so i can click and i can see

3:01 um you know all of the uh all of the

3:04 lldp i didn't take my filter actually

3:06 this is actually uh here we go okay so

3:09 here's here's the lldp um

3:12 and

3:13 you know so i can just this is a this is

3:15 a missed access point um i can see the

3:17 you know the capabilities here just a

3:19 quick thing um and then uh be able to

3:21 download this um into uh into wireshark

3:24 and and do you know full analysis um or

3:27 you know from a wireless troubleshooting

3:29 perspective let's say i wanted to look

3:31 at um

3:32 you know uh you know what is

3:34 what are you know let me look at avi's

3:36 laptop and see maybe just tcp um that's

3:39 coming out of his his laptop you know

3:41 let's say i wanted to troubleshoot tcp

3:43 or i could you know pick avi's laptop

3:45 and as he roams around we'll

3:47 automatically capture all the

3:48 associations um as he's going from ap to

3:51 ap

3:52 um so it it makes just kind of your

3:54 focused real-time troubleshooting a lot

3:56 easier um with you know with the

3:59 real-time streaming packet capture um uh

4:02 you know let's say and i could i don't

4:04 even have to you know choose avi i can

4:06 choose you know all clients right um and

4:09 i can choose i can look at all

4:10 associations within the network um and

4:13 then i could filter on say equal frames

4:15 um and uh

4:18 you know so it just

4:20 i'm really excited for this stuff i

4:22 think it'll make like i said real-time

4:24 troubleshooting um a lot easier and a

4:26 lot you know a lot exciting a lot more

4:28 exciting rather than just capturing your

4:29 file waiting for the file to upload to

4:31 the cloud then downloading it again to

4:33 make sure that you actually you know got

4:35 the right um you know the right packets

4:37 that you thought that you're going to

4:38 get

4:38 hey wes i have a question on this is

4:40 jordan martin

4:41 um

4:42 how are you handling like integrity on

4:44 this make sure that you're actually

4:45 getting all the packets because i mean

4:46 this is one of the challenges around

4:47 capture historically is

4:49 you know there's only a certain amount

4:50 of processor on on a device that's

4:51 capable of doing it and then when you

4:53 talk about transferring it it's a lot of

4:54 data um

4:56 on a busy network at least you're

4:57 talking about doing this for multiple

4:58 devices in the network so like what what

5:00 do you do on the back end to make sure

5:02 that you can trust that this is actually

5:04 the capture and that we haven't lost

5:05 packets along the way

5:07 no it's that is a that's a you know it's

5:09 a fair point and and definitely a

5:11 concern um so

5:13 kind of what we do from a

5:15 a default perspective is you know our

5:18 first of all our max packet length um is

5:20 truncated so uh in most cases you know

5:24 you don't necessarily care about data

5:27 the full data payload now you may right

5:30 depending on the troubleshooting that

5:31 you're doing and so you can increase

5:32 this

5:33 and then we also

5:35 by default limit the number of packets

5:38 per ap

5:39 right so we're we're turning if you say

5:42 hey i want to capture on all aps we're

5:44 we're going to turn on the capture and

5:45 then when we see the relevant

5:47 the relevant frames that you want we're

5:49 going to send those up to the cloud so

5:50 there there is possibility for a network

5:53 kit um but the way that we

5:56 limit the number of packets right it's

5:58 it it is not you know meant to be a

6:00 continuous and we only are streaming

6:02 data from

6:04 um you know as it's relevant so

6:07 you know the intention here is you're

6:08 going to put in you're going to put in

6:10 filters

6:11 and then there's protections to keep you

6:12 from capturing

6:14 too much data

6:15 now as far as how do you know that

6:17 you're

6:18 getting every packet

6:20 uh

6:22 that we don't have a way to to guarantee

6:25 that

6:25 um now

6:27 the the way that the capture works on

6:29 the the access point is you know we're

6:31 pulling it from the data path right

6:33 we're not um

6:34 like when we capture on the wireless

6:36 interface we're not taking that that

6:38 interface out of client serving mode um

6:40 so we're pulling it out of out of the

6:42 data path um so we are you know we get

6:45 we get whatever whatever goes in the

6:47 data path so sort of however the you

6:49 know whatever goes through the data path

6:50 comes out

6:51 um into the packet capture so it's not

6:53 like i don't know the implementation

6:55 will make it so that's not likely that

6:57 we'll miss packets um but you know you

7:00 you can't you're you can't guarantee it

7:02 yeah okay i appreciate that you're not

7:04 alone that's not a bad answer everyone

7:06 has this challenge right it's just

7:08 um i know that you know integrity is a

7:09 big thing so i appreciate that um you

7:11 know ideally you are

7:14 if if you need to get to the point of

7:15 manual packet capture you're looking for

7:17 something very specific um and you'll

7:19 use kind of the filtering options um and

7:22 this will actually be enhanced quite a

7:23 bit more to put in some pre-canned

7:24 filters um but kind of your you lock

7:27 down what you're what you're trying to

7:28 look at and you because you're usually

7:30 trying to look for a specific thing

7:34 are you guys supporting any immediate

7:36 like direct export to something like

7:37 cloud shark or anything else like that

7:39 or looking uh that's actually a good

7:41 point so um so today on the manual

7:44 packet captures so this you'll be able

7:45 to download this um

7:47 uh in into

7:49 uh a peacock into

7:51 uh you know into wireshark um but we

7:54 already do have an integration

7:56 uh with cloud shark

7:58 uh

7:59 uh for our dynamic uh pcap

8:03 uh up you know whenever we have a

8:05 dynamic recap um so let me find if uh

8:08 yeah that's sort of why i was asking is

8:10 it yeah so so it would actually be very

8:12 easy right for us to to add this button

8:14 for um

8:16 for

8:17 you know the manual p cap and i i yeah

8:20 that a good point it was something that

8:21 we didn't think but we should actually

8:22 do and it's it's already built so we

8:24 should do it

8:25 so um you know the next the next big

8:27 thing in wi-fi is wi-fi 6e

8:31 so i want to spend some time talking

8:33 about how that will impact the wired

8:34 network since this is a network field

8:37 day

8:38 so we we are entering a new era in wi-fi

8:41 right we have this uh

8:42 uh gigabit wi-fi right um

8:46 well if you look closely this is a 2011

8:48 ac and this is published in 2013.

8:51 so i think as an industry uh we have

8:54 been touting hey wi-fi gigabit wi-fi

8:57 multi-gigabit wi-fi

8:59 so what does that actually mean from a

9:01 you know a wired networking perspective

9:03 you know what kind of uplinks do you

9:05 need on on your aps

9:07 um

9:08 and

9:09 you know just more broadly more recently

9:11 you know we have this if you look in

9:13 people's data sheets the press releases

9:15 you know 5.37 gigabits per second

9:18 maximum real world speed it the way that

9:21 the 802.11 data rate is presented is

9:25 that is the throughput that you can

9:26 expect um but

9:28 if you know wi-fi at all and even if you

9:30 don't

9:31 there's a disconnect there and you'll

9:32 typically never see that type of

9:34 throughput

9:35 on you know in in the you know in the

9:37 real world

9:39 um and so this is where

9:41 we kind of enter

9:42 um enter wi-fi 6e right so wi-fi 6e is a

9:45 new

9:47 a new frequency band and mostly most of

9:49 the time what this will mean is you're

9:51 going to add an additional radio to the

9:53 access point

9:54 um so more potential for for you know

9:56 for bandwidth um

9:58 and there's a lot of

9:59 a lot of frequency that's being

10:00 allocated so in the us we're out getting

10:02 1200 megahertz um in other places in the

10:05 world they're getting 500 megahertz of

10:07 spectrum

10:08 where if you consider today most of the

10:11 total number available spectrum that we

10:12 have is about 500 megahertz maybe a

10:14 little bit more so we're more than

10:16 doubling

10:17 the amount of spectrum that we have um

10:19 and

10:20 in the us we're getting considerably

10:21 more

10:22 um so from a a channel with perspective

10:25 right so wi-fi you can have different

10:26 channel widths um

10:28 faster speeds if you use wider channel

10:30 widths but then you don't have as many

10:31 channels

10:33 this the point of the slide is to show

10:35 in in six gig the green uh color here we

10:39 have 14 80 megahertz channels which is

10:42 more than the number of 40 megahertz

10:44 channels that we have in five gig today

10:46 and then for some other reasons with um

10:49 you know how the scanning is going to

10:50 happen 80 so likely you're going to see

10:52 80 megahertz channels as the default

10:54 channel width

10:55 now why is this relevant

10:57 well

10:58 if we come back to our conversation

11:00 around uh how much you know what do you

11:02 actually need m gig for your ap up link

11:05 um so let's start with some facts

11:07 right so today

11:08 across the miss universe most missed aps

11:12 based on analysis that we did utilize

11:14 less than 100 megabits per second

11:16 aggregate right through from their

11:18 ethernet interface um and

11:21 you know depend and that'll be kind of

11:23 channel with dependent as well

11:25 the peaks though will you know you can

11:26 burst you know typically 200 to 500

11:28 megabits per second depending on the

11:30 channel bandwidth that you use

11:32 um so the general rule of thumb is you

11:35 need a hundred megahertz

11:37 of total band of total frequency you

11:39 know across all your radios to exceed a

11:41 gigabit per second um and this is

11:44 typically going to be for a burst right

11:46 you're not you're not going to see

11:47 sustained traffic

11:49 um

11:50 and so if i put up this this chart

11:52 around hey this is what we think you

11:54 know is going to happen with real world

11:56 throughput um so today we're in this

11:58 dual band mode right with with 20

12:00 megahertz on 2.4 and 20 megahertz on 5

12:03 gig or maybe even 20 megahertz on 2.4

12:06 and 40 megahertz on 5 gig

12:08 or we could do like dual five gig and

12:10 have 40 megahertz channels on both

12:12 radios

12:13 in all these combinations

12:16 you're not likely to exceed a gig in

12:18 real world now in labs you can always do

12:20 it but in real world you're still under

12:21 a gig of throughput so you're kind of

12:24 below that hey do i really need m gig

12:27 with

12:28 wi-fi 6e

12:30 adding a third radio to the access point

12:32 and then defaulting to 80 megahertz in 6

12:36 gig it still doesn't mean that you're

12:39 going to exceed a gig um but you you now

12:41 have sort of the best

12:44 the best chance

12:46 to exceed a gig right i i think there

12:48 will be circumstances where you burst

12:51 above a gig um and so for customers who

12:54 who care you know want to protect

12:56 themselves for future and and will care

12:58 about these bursts in gig actually

13:00 absolutely makes sense um it's not a

13:02 requirement

13:03 i don't think but it it it'll you know

13:05 it'll help and and kind of the

13:08 you know i've i've always been a skeptic

13:10 of this messaging round you need them

13:11 gig um but sort of how i'm approaching

13:14 it now is it's the best chance

13:17 you have the best chance of exceeding a

13:19 gig than we've ever had right we've been

13:20 touting gigabit wi-fi since 2013 but now

13:23 finally in 2020 you know 2022 with wi-fi

13:26 6e

13:28 you now have the best chance of

13:29 exceeding a gig and actually utilizing

13:31 that m gig link

13:35 now how about

13:36 power um that's the other piece right

13:38 what is th what is the poe impact

13:41 um so

13:42 most of your higher end access points

13:45 your wi-fi 6e access points will require

13:49 802.3 bt for full wi-fi functionality

13:53 now

13:54 the lower-end aps like the 2x2 aps

13:58 and even even the 4x4 aps but

14:01 with reduced functionality we'll work on

14:03 80

14:05 so this is actually mis this is the

14:06 missed ap45 our flagship 4x4 so on full

14:11 wi-fi functionality we need 31 watts

14:14 we do work just fine um on on a t and if

14:18 we can only get 30 watts

14:20 but

14:21 and we'll we'll

14:22 reduce functionality on some of the

14:24 radios

14:25 but just kind of know that bt will be

14:27 helpful

14:29 um for wi-fi 60 deployments and as

14:32 you're you know if you're supporting

14:34 wi-fi 6e deployments in your in your

14:36 organization

14:38 but likely

14:39 most manufacturers will also come out

14:41 with an at operating mode as well

14:44 and then speaking of bt

14:46 just remember to turn it on

14:49 so on juniper depending on the switch it

14:51 may or may not be on by default

14:53 you can check if you're in bt mode by

14:55 doing the show poe controller and then

14:57 on cisco you also need to turn on bt

15:00 mode and i think for most other vendors

15:01 you do as well so

15:03 this is actually

15:05 we had a customer just the other day who

15:08 was turned wanted to use the the poe out

15:10 functionality on our existing aps

15:12 and to do that with the ap43 you need bt

15:15 power and they had a cisco switch and

15:17 they're wondering hey why isn't this

15:19 working well because

15:21 the cisco switch wasn't in in bt mode so

15:23 just remember to turn on if you intend

15:25 to use it

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