Chris Lewis, Independent Industry Analyst and of Host of Get Connected

Get Connected Podcast Episode 7: Managing the CSP Cloud Like a Hyperscaler

Get Connected Telco CloudNetwork Automation
Chris Lewis Headshot
Title card that says “GET CONNECTED with Chris Lewis,” and has the headline of, “Managing the CSP Cloud Like a Hyperscaler.” There is a cartoon image of a man and woman giving a podcast.

When reliability truly matters, Apstra from Juniper delivers.

Should you, as a communication service provider (CSP), work with public cloud hyperscalers or build your own telco cloud infrastructure? The answer, according to Juniper’s Ben Baker, is ‘yes’ — CSPs should do both. Listen to find out details, plus gain insight into three key CSP use cases best served by Juniper’s Apstra intent-based networking software.

Show more

You’ll learn

  • Why Juniper purchases Apstra, and why it’s such a good fit for CSPs

  • Three key use cases all CSPs must content with — and how Juniper helps

  • How to apply lessons from public cloud hyperscalers for telco

Who is this for?

Network Professionals Business Leaders

Host

Chris Lewis Headshot
Chris Lewis
Independent Industry Analyst and of Host of Get Connected

Guest speakers

Mansour Karam Headshot
Mansour Karam
VP Product Management Apstra, Juniper Networks
Ben Baker
Ben Baker
Product Marketing Sr. Director Cloud and Service Provider Marketing, Juniper Networks
Transcript

0:00 [Music]

0:03 get connected

0:06 you're listening to get connected

0:09 thanks for joining us

0:13 in this series we discuss the various

0:16 issues shaping your industry how the

0:18 changes in supplier ecosystems impact

0:20 the way you work on a daily basis how

0:23 your customers consume the services you

0:25 create and how the industry as a whole

0:27 steps up to the demands of the digital

0:29 marketplace let's get connected

0:36 hello listener let's get connected

0:38 [Music]

0:41 my name is chris lewis

0:43 by day i'm an independent industry

0:46 analyst

0:47 by night as i'm sure you know by now i'm

0:49 a podcaster

0:53 welcome to get connected where we delve

0:56 into the issues shaping the networking

0:58 industry and the experiences we all

1:01 benefit from by being better connected

1:05 in this episode we're talking about the

1:07 underlying network infrastructure and

1:10 how we manage it for the modernization

1:12 of the telco the new generation of csps

1:15 and how they build their services to

1:17 address all of those evolving customer

1:19 requirements

1:20 now i'm always excited when we build the

1:22 frameworks for these podcasts but i'm

1:24 especially excited today because we're

1:26 going right back to the basis of

1:28 creating the technology that actually

1:31 addresses the issue of building this

1:33 underlying network infrastructure and

1:35 delivering it for the future of the

1:36 industry

1:37 today i'm joined by two people one who's

1:40 created the underlying technology and

1:42 the other whose challenge is to

1:44 implement the technology for the modern

1:46 csp welcome mansour and welcome ben hi

1:50 great to be here glad to be here

1:52 so mansour let's kick off with you could

1:54 you please introduce yourself and your

1:56 role to our listener he's hi i'm mansur

1:59 karam uh i was previously founder and

2:02 ceo of abstract and i'm currently vp

2:04 products at juniper responsible for the

2:06 appstore business thank you mansour

2:08 pleasure to have you with us and ben

2:10 tell me about yourself hey everyone i'm

2:12 ben baker i've been with juniper for

2:14 about 10 years now and before that many

2:16 years in and around the networking and

2:18 communication service provider space

2:20 right now i'm responsible for marketing

2:21 our cloud and data center portfolio as

2:24 well as business case analysis for

2:26 customers across the entire juniper

2:27 portfolio i'm sure we'll come back to

2:29 that business analysis later on in the

2:31 episode but mansour to begin with

2:33 perhaps just setting context for us you

2:35 know what is appstra is it a is it a

2:37 toolkit is it a management platform what

2:39 is this abstract thing that you created

2:41 yeah abstract is a management solution

2:44 for networks what it does is that it

2:46 automates all aspects of designing

2:48 building and operating your data center

2:50 network essentially the entire

2:53 life cycle we've invented this concept

2:55 called intent based networking the idea

2:58 is that instead of an operator

3:01 dealing with

3:02 how the specifics of the commands etc

3:05 they're dealing with the what right the

3:07 outcomes are trying to achieve in terms

3:09 of connectivity security

3:12 quality of experience etc so it's a

3:14 really powerful approach to automation

3:16 and what it does it delivers this

3:18 unparalleled operational simplicity

3:21 which means that now customers can go

3:23 quickly but they don't have to get

3:25 involved into the details so they can

3:27 really go at the speed of the business

3:29 while you know since the software is

3:31 taking care of all of the details

3:33 it provides unrivaled levels of

3:36 reliability reliability is really key in

3:39 networking you want to achieve the

3:41 highest levels of reliability given how

3:43 foundational the network is and also

3:46 because now you're dealing at the

3:48 outcome level

3:50 and you're not dealing with the

3:51 specifics of the how we have these

3:53 layers of abstractions which makes the

3:55 solution completely multi-vendor meaning

3:58 that it works with equipment from

4:00 multiple vendors not just juniper and

4:03 this is actually key to many

4:05 organizations out there and especially

4:06 service providers because you created

4:09 the motivation behind this was very much

4:10 in that in the data center

4:12 and so it was an enterprise oriented

4:15 development so what was that your pure

4:17 motivation or did you you saw this

4:19 evolution of the requirement of the

4:20 underlying network how did you see that

4:23 what motivated you to get it do in the

4:24 first place what motivated us and that

4:26 was back in 2014 when we started apps

4:29 was that there was a lot of innovation

4:31 happening on the device side you know it

4:34 used to be that

4:36 equipment was only we only were able to

4:38 configure it using command line the

4:40 command line interface but then

4:43 vendors were introducing apis powerful

4:45 apis that you could use to

4:48 both configure these devices but also

4:50 collect telemetry from these devices and

4:53 these innovations came because they were

4:55 requirements from the clouds the

4:58 hyperscalers at the time that you know

4:59 they were emerging and they were

5:01 building these data centers that scaled

5:03 and they needed you know a programmatic

5:05 approach to manage their infrastructures

5:08 and so

5:09 you know they were leading but then

5:11 for every enterprise out there the

5:13 network was becoming increasingly

5:16 foundational increasingly critical to

5:18 everything they were trying to achieve

5:20 you know gardner has famously said that

5:23 you're three times more likely to fail

5:25 at your digital transformation

5:27 initiative if you don't transform your

5:29 network first and so enterprises needed

5:31 to transform their networks and you had

5:34 the apis but what you lacked was the

5:37 tools you really didn't have management

5:39 solutions at the time that were helping

5:42 them to get there and so you know a lot

5:44 of times they were just managing their

5:46 networks

5:47 device by device by kind of typing in

5:50 the commands to configure those devices

5:53 and if something happened in their

5:55 networks that really didn't have the

5:56 right visibility in order to figure out

5:58 what's going on so that was the

6:01 motivation networks were becoming

6:03 critical not just for the hyperscalers

6:05 not just for service providers but for

6:07 every enterprise out there and there was

6:10 a big gap in terms of the tools that

6:13 will allow those operators to manage

6:15 those networks in an automated way to

6:18 help them transform the network for them

6:20 to be successful in their digital

6:21 transformations it's so encouraging

6:23 because as an analyst who at one time

6:25 specialized in network management it

6:27 delights me to hear how we we're

6:29 bringing all these things together to be

6:30 able to manage it in a in a unified way

6:33 rather than having to understand how

6:35 every separate management system worked

6:36 which was always been a nightmare given

6:38 the way that the network evolves within

6:40 this service provider environment now

6:42 ben with your service provider hat on or

6:45 through a service provider lens how do

6:46 you see this well it's an interesting

6:49 question of how the abstract philosophy

6:51 fits in with the juniper telco

6:53 philosophy and we actually tried

6:55 building a dc fabric management solution

6:57 ourselves a few years ago

6:59 but we found it incredibly difficult to

7:01 do and we eventually realized that

7:04 hey there's a product out there that's

7:05 exactly like what we wanted to build and

7:07 it was mature that a growing customer

7:10 base so we bought it and um you know as

7:12 mansour touched on a couple of these

7:14 things abstra fits well with how juniper

7:16 has always approached the telco

7:18 marketplace for example in terms of

7:20 being open

7:21 appstore is multi-vendor and nearly all

7:24 of the environments that juniper

7:25 operates in today are multi-vendor

7:28 and also if you think about reliability

7:30 you know historically this could just be

7:32 the one

7:33 single word that you would use to

7:35 describe what drives a telco business

7:37 and and as it turns out

7:39 reliability is a key founding principle

7:41 of abstract and the idea that the

7:43 blueprints that appstr is based upon

7:45 essentially

7:46 give you that reliability and

7:48 consistency and this is what ultimately

7:51 gives you speed of operations and as

7:53 menswear point out this is one of the

7:55 key insights that we can all learn from

7:57 the cloud hyperscalers who are masters

7:59 at

8:00 managing the their infrastructure so

8:02 junepro has this fantastic solution for

8:04 the overlay and that's our contrail

8:06 product that everyone knows about that

8:09 orchestrates cloud workloads and virtual

8:11 networks and now with appstore we have

8:13 this fantastic solution to manage the

8:16 data center underlay very interesting

8:18 and i'm sure we'll come back to that

8:19 underlay overlay topic

8:21 conversely that leads me to ask you

8:23 mansor why juniper for abstract the

8:26 first thing i'd say is what ben

8:27 mentioned this uh open culture right

8:31 from the beginning juniper was a

8:32 challenger in the networking space and

8:35 they led by having open is a key

8:38 foundation right and so they're you know

8:40 very involved in standards

8:42 uh you know ensuring their their

8:43 solutions work in multi-vendor

8:45 environments and so for us at abstract

8:48 we deeply cared that

8:50 the technology that we brought in was

8:52 going to continue in the same fashion

8:54 and not only was it important to

8:56 abstract it was also important to our

8:58 customers you know they really cared

9:00 about the multi-vendor aspect the open

9:02 aspect of the solution and indeed

9:04 juniper was committed to that they

9:06 committed for abstract as in the

9:09 management solution not only to work

9:10 with juniper switches but also

9:12 cisco and arista and even sonic which is

9:16 you know in open source network

9:18 operating system and we support all of

9:20 these today so that was an important

9:23 aspect

9:24 the other of course is juniper scale

9:26 right in terms of the number of sellers

9:29 out there their service organizations

9:32 these are world-class

9:34 organizations that really could reach

9:36 customers you know in every country that

9:38 renault were engaged in 63 countries and

9:41 you know we couldn't have done it

9:43 without the help of the larger juniper

9:46 organization

9:47 the other thing i'd say is juniper in

9:49 addition to it having this this open

9:51 approach they're all about uh

9:54 differentiated technologies best of

9:55 breed technologies uh you know of course

9:58 their switches their security solutions

10:00 but then you know what they brought in

10:01 with the acquisitions uh like

10:04 mist there is a lot

10:06 there in terms of technologies that we

10:08 felt if we were to integrate and kind of

10:11 leverage then we can deliver a really

10:15 unique solution to our customers the

10:18 unified uh solutions think of it as a

10:20 single stack uh solution that you know

10:24 not is not only valid for the data

10:26 center but also to service providers and

10:29 campers and ultimately you know we talk

10:31 about data centers but really what

10:33 you're seeing customers do is integrate

10:35 these different areas you know that were

10:38 siloed in the past and so having you

10:40 know access to all of these technologies

10:42 really felt like we could address our

10:45 customer problems uniquely

10:48 you know and last but not least let's

10:49 say you know just from a pragmatic

10:50 standpoint customers buy software you

10:53 know especially management software

10:55 when they're buying the hardware and i

10:58 think for us as in when we're an

11:00 independent company that was kind of

11:01 part of our challenge is to find those

11:03 deals like when is the customer actually

11:06 buying hardware

11:08 now being part of juniper of course we

11:10 we have access to all of those deals you

11:12 know juniper is very aware of when

11:14 customers are making these hardware

11:16 purchases and you know essentially we

11:18 can have that software conversations

11:20 along with that that's so true and what

11:22 i observe as an analyst is that

11:23 increasingly

11:25 we always have to say of course that

11:26 every csp every telco is different every

11:28 country market is different so many

11:30 parameters shaping it but the breaking

11:32 down of these silos is allowing the csps

11:35 to actually build solutions build

11:36 infrastructure build platforms build

11:38 services which actually address those

11:40 future requirements which is a change

11:41 from the old model where we used to

11:43 build the technology and eventually

11:44 expose the service to the customer so

11:46 it's a new generation that's correct

11:49 so that gives us the background why

11:51 juniper for appstra but more importantly

11:53 ben why appstr for telco well when

11:56 you're talking data center for the telco

12:00 world the sp world at a high level

12:02 there's basically three use cases number

12:04 one enterprise i.t applications so every

12:07 sp is in some sense just like any other

12:10 enterprise and they need to run their

12:12 internal application somewhere whether

12:14 that's erp systems or crm hr

12:18 oss bss of course

12:20 and no doubt there is a move to public

12:22 cloud and sas with these workloads but

12:24 there is still and will continue to be

12:26 plenty of sp owned and operated i.t data

12:29 center infrastructure

12:31 second use case for telcos is to deliver

12:33 managed services from their data centers

12:36 an important customer that juniper

12:38 appstore has for this use case is t

12:39 systems which of course is part of

12:41 deutsche telecom

12:43 the third use case is telco cloud and a

12:45 subset of that you can think of is edge

12:47 cloud an important customer we have here

12:50 for juniper contrail and appstress

12:52 telefonica

12:53 and this use case of telco and edgecloud

12:56 is really interesting and there's so

12:57 much activity in these areas and i don't

13:00 think it's a stretch to say that one of

13:02 the most important strategic decisions

13:04 facing most sps around the world today

13:07 is whether you should work with the

13:08 hyperscalers the public cloud providers

13:11 or should you do it yourself

13:13 and we think the answer is yes you

13:15 should do both so we think it would be a

13:18 huge mistake for an sp to just

13:20 seed that telco cloud to hyperscalers

13:22 there has to be a diy motion sps should

13:26 develop in-house cloud-native platforms

13:28 and technologies and expertise to

13:29 protect their long-term interests

13:31 and to maintain some control and

13:33 leverage for their business but at the

13:35 same time sp should also develop

13:38 balanced symbiotic relationships with

13:40 the public cloud providers and the

13:42 juniper portfolio can help in sp here

13:45 it changes the economics and gives you a

13:48 positive business case for building and

13:50 operating out your own cloud

13:51 infrastructure i think that that sort of

13:53 economics and technology combined

13:56 really fascinates me because ultimately

13:58 it is a supply and demand issue it's a

13:59 supply chain issue and like you say it's

14:02 not whether you work with the hype

14:03 skills it's how you work with the

14:04 hyperscalers and mansour from your point

14:06 of view you you touched upon this

14:08 bringing together almost a single stack

14:10 of the sort of the contrary an abstract

14:12 from a telco point of view do you have

14:14 any further thoughts on that you know as

14:16 as ben mentioned contrail handles the

14:19 overlay whereas abstra handles the

14:22 underlay both are of course

14:24 really important and as ben mentioned we

14:26 have customers such as telefonica who is

14:29 deploying both

14:30 you know i think of the underrate as

14:32 like the equipment itself all the

14:33 devices including the topology all of

14:35 the protocols that you know essentially

14:37 you're deploying uh in your

14:39 infrastructure to make it all work

14:42 when we're talking about the networking

14:43 equipment itself appstra manages these

14:46 whereas the overlay is really about the

14:48 services that uh including some network

14:50 services that are being deployed on the

14:53 server right and you can imagine that

14:55 these two things have to be integrated

14:57 and indeed you know we do integrate apps

15:00 with contrail so for example if you have

15:03 some security service that needs to be

15:06 deployed on a networking device maybe

15:09 because you have server servers or

15:11 storage that's connected to these

15:12 devices to which you're applying a

15:15 security policy then abstract will take

15:17 care of that whereas if you need to

15:19 deploy a security policy on a server

15:22 then contrail would do that and these

15:24 are generally two teams and so

15:28 you want to provide the visibility of

15:30 you know of one domain into the other

15:32 domain and so you know bring in the

15:35 server policy the visibility that these

15:37 server policies into

15:38 into abstract so that the networking

15:40 teams have visibility into that and vice

15:44 versa you're right that automation that

15:46 changing the economics changing the the

15:48 way in which the csps think about these

15:50 pieces because in the past some of that

15:52 was separate silos separate teams like

15:54 you say but it's giving that visibility

15:56 and the ability to manage it you know

15:58 through that one perspective correct

16:01 and in fact with our newest release here

16:04 we're introducing some specific

16:07 capabilities which are

16:09 targeted at

16:11 telcos

16:13 specifically around multi-tenancy for

16:16 example and

16:17 uh edge computing so the with telco

16:20 specifically what we're seeing or

16:22 especially with telco what we're seeing

16:24 is that

16:25 these networks are getting more and more

16:26 distributed and closer to

16:29 the edge and so having the ability from

16:31 one management platform to

16:34 operate and automate not only

16:37 centralized data centers but distributed

16:39 data centers across many geographical

16:42 areas from one management platform

16:44 becomes critical and this is essentially

16:46 what we have introduced in our latest

16:48 release great yeah and you're absolutely

16:50 right so ironically having we're taking

16:52 some of the lessons from the

16:53 hyperscalers and what they did at scale

16:55 in in the cloud and we're bringing that

16:57 right down to wherever the wherever the

16:59 edge manifests itself correct but ben

17:01 you know what are you hearing

17:02 specifically from your sp customers you

17:04 mentioned a couple in your previous

17:06 answer you know what are they asking for

17:08 and what are they looking to achieve

17:10 so sps are building out 5g

17:13 telco clouds edge clouds new managed

17:15 services and telco data center

17:17 environments in general are

17:19 bigger and messier than a typical

17:21 enterprise they've usually been in

17:23 business for many decades

17:25 they just have more tools more

17:26 acquisitions more legacy and sps

17:29 understand that automation is absolutely

17:31 critical if you think about the

17:33 economics of the telco business on the

17:35 cost side it's about capex and opex and

17:39 opex is

17:40 at least four times as much

17:43 in terms of

17:44 you know size as the capex is

17:47 and so

17:48 you know automation is necessary for

17:51 tackling that opex piece and you know

17:54 most opex discussions start necessarily

17:58 with dry process discussions that you

18:00 know it's not glamorous but but it's you

18:03 know absolutely critical to go through

18:05 process and how you're going to automate

18:06 those different processes

18:08 and

18:09 without automation to simplify

18:11 operations all these new initiatives

18:13 that we're talking about they just

18:14 become more stuff to manage you know

18:17 without a heavy dose of automation

18:19 you're just building out a bigger

18:21 operational mess for yourself

18:23 but it's interesting that network

18:24 operators

18:26 often start with a different paradigm

18:28 for dc network automation than maybe an

18:30 enterprise or a hyperscaler does

18:33 and sp has you know no surprise here a

18:36 telco network-centric view of the world

18:39 they first think about network or

18:41 service orchestration and nms's you know

18:43 network management systems and wan

18:46 automation

18:47 before they think about data center

18:49 fabric management for example and of

18:51 course all the above are important so

18:53 these new sp cloud initiatives are

18:56 multi-year projects where we work

18:57 closely alongside our customers

19:00 it is is that changing nature of what

19:01 the the service provider of the csp is

19:04 and it just occurs to me that what you

19:06 just talked about then there is a

19:07 natural progression from that which says

19:09 actually what are we actually delivering

19:11 to the end customer so all the way

19:13 through all of these layers i think man

19:15 saw you mentioned this earlier on about

19:16 using apis and the visibility all the

19:18 way through you know at the end of the

19:19 day what is it we deliver to our

19:21 customers what the customers pay for you

19:23 know they pay for that fixed and mobile

19:24 broadband for those business services

19:26 and for being part of other uh the value

19:28 chain so yeah we need the basics the

19:30 business process stuff to work cleanly

19:32 and we need to be able to bring all of

19:33 these parts together to make sure that

19:36 that connectivity piece becomes the

19:37 essential

19:38 underpinning of the way the the

19:40 offerings get built and manso you know

19:42 this this has been your baby you've

19:44 developed it it's grown

19:45 two things how do you see apps are

19:47 evolving and what commonalities do you

19:50 see between service provider enterprise

19:52 and hyperscaler networks

19:55 when i think of

19:56 the the abstract evolution the first

19:58 thing i'll say is it would continue

20:00 always you know evolving improving the

20:02 technology for example by adding more

20:05 flexibility so that we have the ability

20:07 to address

20:08 more use cases like for example you know

20:11 as i mentioned with our

20:12 newest release we now have support for

20:15 edge or this is because we're now

20:17 supporting these collapsed spine kind of

20:20 topologies which is an increment

20:22 compared to what we had before which now

20:24 allows us to support these distributed

20:26 edge data centers and so we will

20:28 continue doing that evolving the

20:30 technology and also adding more

20:33 telemetry always improving the

20:35 intelligence of the solution that would

20:37 continue happening but in addition to

20:39 that

20:40 what excites me is that we're seeing a

20:42 convergence right first you know between

20:44 the different what used to be different

20:47 segments like you know campus and data

20:50 center

20:50 and when when you think now of a campus

20:53 solution it includes wi-fi it includes

20:56 the switches themselves so the wired

20:57 network but it also includes sd1 and

21:01 usually these campuses are connected to

21:03 data centers often you have you know

21:06 data centers within the campuses

21:07 themselves

21:08 and you know these data centers are

21:10 typically connected to the cloud and so

21:12 you no longer have these silos rather

21:15 you have

21:16 kind of a continuum and you know what we

21:19 need is deliver to our customers tools

21:22 that help them

21:23 manage this network in the context of

21:26 this continuum and certainly juniper has

21:29 lots of exciting products there and

21:31 technologies like mists and marvelous

21:34 with ai and machine learning and you can

21:37 imagine that integrations there will

21:40 really deliver a lot of value to our

21:42 customers in the context of this more

21:46 continuous spectrum

21:47 and so that's you know how i see apps

21:50 right evolving and you know to me i see

21:52 it as a really exciting development i

21:54 see a lot of exciting things for the

21:56 future

21:57 and you know when it comes to the

21:58 communality between enterprise and

21:59 service provider what i'll say is that

22:01 there is convergence there as well

22:04 for example it used to be that only

22:06 service providers cared about these five

22:08 nines of reliability

22:11 but you can imagine

22:12 that enterprises today they care as much

22:16 about reliability we've talked about how

22:19 networks are at the core of everything

22:21 they do and we've all heard stories of

22:24 you know networks failing causing

22:26 disastrous damage to the business and so

22:29 reliability is becoming really critical

22:32 to enterprises as well so we're seeing

22:34 convergence of requirements there

22:36 another example is multi-vendor a

22:38 multi-vendor was always critical to

22:41 service providers and it used to be that

22:43 enterprises were happy to buy you know

22:45 all their equipment from one vendor but

22:48 increasingly again because of how

22:50 critical these networks have become

22:52 it's become necessary for these

22:54 enterprises to

22:55 have dual sourced uh strategies uh you

22:59 can imagine that today with supply chain

23:02 issues that is even more top of mind or

23:04 makes it at least that much more clearer

23:07 to these enterprises if you're locked

23:09 into your only one vendor then if that

23:12 vendor doesn't have equipment for you by

23:15 the time you need it then you're dead in

23:16 the water you should have a much much

23:18 better

23:19 chance if you had more than one vendor

23:21 in your environment and so this is

23:23 another example multi-vendor which you

23:25 know now is kind of a requirement across

23:28 both enterprises and service providers

23:30 it's fascinating isn't it that you know

23:32 we we now look at that notion of

23:34 reliability and certainly we don't know

23:36 necessarily where the resource sits to

23:38 deliver that where the workflow goes how

23:40 the process goes so actually managing

23:42 all of that having the visibility

23:44 through something like abstract is

23:46 absolutely critical so that we can

23:48 manage it so if anything does happen to

23:50 go wrong that we've got the visibility

23:52 the reach through to be able to to

23:54 redress the problem yeah there was in

23:57 ads it i think it was a tire ad from the

23:59 i think it was the 1980s uh

24:02 power is nothing without control right

24:05 so i'd say here speed is nothing without

24:07 reliability right you know if you move

24:10 fast and you break things in networking

24:12 and that's that's that's worse

24:14 you know but what is really important

24:17 for enterprises to deliver

24:19 on their

24:20 requirements for their customers is to

24:22 move fast because they need to move at

24:25 the speed of the business

24:26 but

24:27 critically they have to do it reliably

24:30 with you know 100 percent reliability

24:32 mansur you're absolutely right the

24:34 changing nature of what the server

24:36 provide has to do managing delivering

24:39 all of those services wherever they

24:40 might be required and it's that change

24:42 in almost in structure that inside out

24:45 model becoming an outside in where the

24:46 demands on the network are so many and

24:48 varied so we have to have that

24:50 visibility we have to be able to manage

24:52 all of those moving parts in order to be

24:55 that critical component contributing to

24:57 the digital marketplace

24:59 so my thanks to you mansour and ben for

25:01 fantastic contributions mansour from

25:03 your origins of appstra building it up

25:06 and growing that business ben with your

25:08 perspective from the service providers

25:09 and what's coming out the marketplace

25:11 today thank you both thank you thank you

25:14 so there you have it listener we've

25:16 talked about appstra

25:17 building the tools the infrastructure

25:19 the platform that is essential as the

25:22 blurring of lines takes place between

25:25 the data center the hyperscaler the

25:27 enterprise and the service provider

25:29 we acknowledge that the differences

25:31 exist within every organization every

25:34 telco in every country and therefore

25:36 being able to adapt and build the

25:38 services and manage the services in

25:40 relation to the customer the supply

25:42 chain becomes absolutely essential the

25:45 manageability of all those moving parts

25:48 is what we need to aim for and as a

25:50 service provider community we need to

25:52 understand all of those moving parts and

25:54 especially how it rolls up to deliver

25:57 the services down to the consumer and

25:59 the business market

26:03 now all the remains is a few thank yous

26:06 thank you to juniper for the opportunity

26:08 to dig into this underlying network

26:10 fabric and its importance for

26:12 underpinning the future of the telecoms

26:14 industry

26:15 and thank you to you too for listening i

26:18 look forward to talking to you again

26:20 soon

26:22 you've been listening to get connected

26:25 you've heard from us now we'd love to

26:27 hear from you

26:29 tell us what you think via twitter using

26:31 the handle at juniper networks

26:34 and if you like what you've heard

26:36 remember to tell your colleagues and

26:38 friends

26:39 thanks for listening to get connected

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